Ed's out of the Alembic game

[adriaan]

Times are catching up with people of the Americans buy American only variety ... even such hitech icons as the iPod that are sold under a proud US brand, are actually built by Chinese workers who work long, long hours for about 80 USD per month. And who get fined 10 USD for talking.

[David Houck]

Joey; Canada is a long drive from here.  When you and I get together, it will be a major journey for me .  I would love to visit Canada, the whole thing.  I especially would like to visit Nova Scotia; but I think Vancouver would be interesting as well.  I'm not sure if you can still do it, but I've seen a tv documentary of a train you can take from one end of the country to the other, the highlight being the Canadian Rockies.  But on the other hand, I've never been to Santa Rosa, CA; I hear it's pretty interesting too.

[David Houck]

Without getting overly political (the moderator might be looking), here's a couple things that come to mind on the issue raised above of global trade.
 
It's a small planet.
 
When buying produce, if locally grown organic produce is available, buy it.  Buying food from small local family farmers who care about the land seems a better choice than buying from large multi-national corporations that put corporate profits above care for farm workers and the land.
 
When buying something like coffee, look for Fair-Trade items.  Fair Trade coffee comes from small family farmers who care about the land and are paid fairly for their crop.
 
Fair-Trade applies to clothing and other items too.  Fair-Trade businesses insure that the people making the products are paid fairly, and it helps build struggling local economies around the world.
 
If you're buying clothing, look for non-sweatshop.  Also organic-cotton is another positive choice.
 
If your buying hardware items, if there's one nearby, your local family owned hardware store needs your support more than the multi-national big box store.  Same with clothing and other items; it helps to support small local family owned businesses rather than the big corporations.
 
It's a small planet, and we all have a stake in its survival.  We should all care when drought affects family farms in Africa.  We should all care when children are being forced to work in sweatshops.  We should all care when local communities in any part of the world have high unemployment.  We should all care when large corporations pollute our air, land and water.
 
Buying American means nothing if the profits from our purchases go to millionaire shareholders of large corporations that don't pay their workers a fair wage.
 
It's a small planet and we need to support each other all over the world.

[lbpesq]

Well said, Dave.  And don't forget to support the small mom and pop and daughter musicical instrument builders too!  
 
Bill, tgo

[dannobasso]

I completely agree that one should consider carefully when making purchases and do as your values dictate. (that goes for donations to needy causes as well)  I do find it more than interesting that despite all of the changes and progress in the past century, there are still appauling practices and customs throughout the world. The U.S. sends billions all over the world for support and development, yet the horrors still continue, the warlords still strangle populations, genocide still goes on and the list continues. Perhaps we can all pray that the root of corruption that follows charity in the developing world will be erradicated. Then the true value of the support that is given by the developed world will benefit the ones that need it most as Dave has listed.  
On a positive note, thanks to Susan and Mica and Mary as well as the whole group of craftsmen in Santa Rosa, my support of Alembic continues with the delivery of my Cherry red Skylark on Tuesday. Oh, btw I suggest Washington Music instead of Ed. They have always been great to me. Ask for Brian in guitars!

[bigredbass]

While, as usual, I'm not nearly as well-spoken nor carefully considered in my views as Dave, I distilled the same idea down to this:  I vastly prefer to spend my money where it's going to the person I'm handing it to, or at least going no further than the building I'm in, straight to the owners in the back office.  
 
The advent of the big box stores, whether Starbucks, McDonald's, Home Depot, Guitar Center has engendered a generation of 'it's not my job, I'm just a cog in a huge machine' no-service morons.  And often at the very top, customer service is a leg of the business equal to logistics, loss prevention, advertising, etc., who's positive targets are only useful to boost the stock price every quarter, NOT to be genuinely useful or helpful to customers.  Of course you CAN find two or three good people in these places, but they are inevitably the exceptions apart from the rest of the employees.
 
My favorite Field Test of this?  Walk into any Starbucks and ask for a cup of coffee.  Just a plain cup of coffee. 'Sir, I'll have to get my manager!' 'You want a cup of COFFEE, sir?  I don't know if that's in my computer . . . '  Priceless.
 
I find this much less in any business where the owner is talking to me, or watching his business closely.
 
Plus, I'm just a real sucker for old-time hardware stores!
 
J o e y

[bob]

Nicely put, Joey (don't be so modest).
 
I've said most of this here before, but as long as the moderator isn't looking...
 
Perhaps the single biggest factor in choosing Alembic to build my custom, was the fact that they were close enough to visit in person, a few times during the process. I happen to believe there are a few other people on this planet who can put together a very nice instrument, but not obviously better - so proximity was a big factor.
 
As it turned out, the time I spent with these people is perhaps even more valuable than the instrument itself (which is saying a lot). The sense of making a personal connection, rather than simply a business transaction, is a powerful and lasting thing.
 
Granted, the buy local strategy isn't terribly viable for the vast majority of this group. And in that vein, I would once again like to remind those few who from time-to-time remind us to buy American, that you are vastly outnumbered here by those who live elsewhere, and might quite reasonably find that an offensive suggestion. I for one wouldn't hesitate to cross the border into Canada, if that's where Santa Rosa happened to be located (though it would be a tedious drive...).
 
Yet even despite great distances, the attention you get from this little group of artisans in Santa Rosa is truly remarkable. So while it's great that they happen to be local to me, the fact that it's all so direct and personal, wherever you are, is what really matters.
-Bob
 
(adriaan, I'm not clear on what point you were making, but am glad it prompted this discussion. Having read a great deal about it, the iPod manufacturing brouhaha seems to have a lot of subtle twists - for instance, as I recall the #1 worker complaint was not being permitted to work as much overtime as they wanted! Apple acknowledged a small number of specific issues, insisted they be addressed, and apparently even came to the defense of the original squealers of the report when they were being prosecuted, essentially for unfavorable Chinese publicity. I don't know what that all means, except that it is indeed becoming a smaller world - which doesn't necessarily make things any simpler.)

[adriaan]

Bob, perhaps I was confusing two recent news stories - one thing with the iPod story as I recall was that there were lots of subcontractors involved, so on the surface it really did look to be in good order. China was not and is not really a friendly place to live as a private person of little means - neither under communism, nor under the present market-driven economy.
 
The point is still the same one made by Charlie Chaplin in Modern Times. No need to add much to that.

[kmh364]

Oh man! I could get in a lot of trouble here! I'm just gonna stop before I start. Kudos to Dave for keeping me politically correct (on the site, at least), LOL!
 
Cheers,
 
Kevin

[tubeperson]

Hey Keavin, forget politically correct,  free speech required you to express your thoughts.  That PC crap is the worst kind of censorship as it makes people hide their true thoughts.   Don't wimp out now!  I can say from personal experience that there are at least two Ed Roman's.  One is very difficult, and will not answer questions and be very gruff, the other goes out of his way to help you. While I was purchasing the Triple Omega, he extolled the virtues of Alembic.  Two weeks later, he was already singing praises of the Dingwall.  This is his right to do so, just as we have a believe that Alembic rules supreme.  There are many rational folks who would think we have left our senses for spending what we do on Alembics. Sorry club members, the thread needed to get back to its original point, theres way too much politics, and that brings on hate and misinformation.  It seems everyone wants to speak and no one chooses to listen.
 
Love ya all, I learn new things all the time on this site!

[bob]

Agreed, we should probably get back on topic - but I just have to say that I do not agree that it's because everyone wants to speak and no one chooses to listen, or that the discussion here has brought on any hate and misinformation.
 
I somehow doubt that's what you really meant to say anyway - people here really do seem to listen, and every once in a while give a little thought to something beyond these very expensive instruments we are fortunate enough to play.
 
(I'm with you completely on Chaplin, Adriaan)
 
And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[tubeperson]

Hello Bob:
 
My point was not that club members spread hate or misinformation, (although there are cliques in our club), However peaople feel lmited in what they say for fear of offending someone.  If You look at the diplomatic situation in the world, there is a lot of non-communicatoni (or at least one way communication).  Look at some marriages which have the same lack of two way communication issues to deal with.  We are very lucky to be able to spend time on wonderful instruments, but in the scheme of things, there are other very important issues that also require our attention.  Dave H., our fearless moderator and great resource (despite some opinions for which we have different views by the way) has been very good about expressing his environmental concerns for example.  Others would condemn the use of the exotice woods on our real loves in life (that was for you Keavin, the basses don't demand fur coats like the wives or alimony like ex-wives do).
 
Keep playing and lsiten, its the best kind of music there is.  Here comes Moazrt - too many notes!

[adriaan]

Steve (tubeperson),
 
You're being tongue-in-cheek about Mozart, right? Well, to my ears, any note by him is a couple too many.
 
Perhaps it's the ever-confirmative harmonizations (granted: behind some very catchy melodies) that make my mind wander off.

[tubeperson]

Hello Adrian:
 
Now to hijack my own thread.  A tongue in a cheek - who's tongue and who's cheek?  Ahhhh the endless possibilities, and yes someone gets my sense of humor, that statement was meant in humor.  Just try to LOL the way Thomas Hulce (Pinto Animal House fans) the way he did in the movie.  The nets will follow soon thereafter!  
 
Here's to anti-Politically correct, if this tounging and cheeking offends you, you need to get over yourself, and find your own cheek to tounge!  Soprry crew, client tax filings en masse - all I see are Gov't forms to prepare.

[adriaan]

Steve,
 
I didn't mind the tongue-in-cheek bit - just wanted to add a reality check that even people who like classical music don't necessarily like Mozart.