Author Topic: Line-6 BassPod (Read 348 times)

88persuader · « **on:** September 28, 2006, 09:58:58 PM »

The band I'm currently in is considering getting a high end in ear monitoring system. The goal is to all go ampless and wedge monitorless on stage to control stage volume. That way the sound can come from the soundsystem 100% (well except drums which unfortunately doesn't have the option of silent play) and as you know live sound is better coming from the sound system rather then spilling from or being over powered from stage volume. Soooooooooooooo my question, do any of you have experience with a BassPod? Do you think it would sound good using one running directly into the sound system? I currently use an Ampeg SVTPRO5 into an Ampeg 4x10 cab. Sounds the nuts BUT in smaller rooms they don't even put me in the house mix because I'm too loud off stage. And regardless how good the amp sounds on stage out in a room an unmiked bass amp sounds wooofy and muffled. It shakes the room but there's little clearity in the notes.

So what do you think? Using in ear monitors do you think a BassPod going directly into a good full range sound system would sound good?

811952 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2006, 07:29:33 AM »

The bass pod pro is nice, with lots of flexibility. That said, there really is no substitute for the real thing with a tube in it. How radical are your tone changes through the gig, and can they be done with the onboard electronics? If the bass can make the changes from song to song (or the trusted sound engineer can make the changes), then I'd suggest running as near to direct as possible...

My band Old School now has an excellent sound guy, who actively mixes and EQs for and during each tune we play. It is truly wonderful, to the point that I'm going to try not using a bass amp at our next gig (at our last gig I turned my amp all the way down most of the night). He is a bass player with an excellent pair of ears, and I trust that while my tone might not be exactly what I would have it be out front as a matter of personal preference, it will be good (he knows what I like, so it will at least be pretty close). My plan is to run the Series 1.5 into a tube preamp he built, either at the stage end of the snake or back at the board, then run that into my channel on the board. The preamp has no tone circuitry (or one could argue that it has nothing BUT tone circuitry!) but really gives the signal a soul. He can do all the tone shaping at the board. I've found that the lower my stage volume, the better I can hear the bass! If this works well then I will probably invest in some in-ears for added clarity at some point down the road. As is, there is something very neat about hearing the bass from the house feed with all the room ambience...

Also, our drummer plays behind a plexiglass screen, which does wonders for stage volume...

John

hb3 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2006, 01:56:14 PM »

Basspod...tone-sucker. Wasn't into it.

I had a first generation model, though. I heard V.2 is better.

bsee · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2006, 02:34:58 PM »

I've been using pods for years. The original, and then the XT since it came out. I agree that the first gen was much weaker than the XT model.

The effects aren't particularly useful, but the amp models are good enough to gig with. I am not sure how good the models are in terms of being accurate, though, as there is minimal difference between many of them. If you're liking the F-1X/Eden/SWR/Boogie 400/Bassman kind of tubey preamp sound, then one of those models should work pretty well for you.

As far as it being a tone sucker, I don't agree. I think it works just fine. I found myself using just the Bassman model with my current gig, so I went and got a Fender pre to have the real thing. I am not sure I did the right thing as I now carry a volume pedal, compressor, octave box, and the foot switch for the amp. Didn't really reduce my load any at all...

By the way, I generally played it through an SWR head or combo until I picked up an iAmp800 and a Schroeder cabinet. If you played it through a more colored amp/cab setup, you might not appreciate what the thing can actually do. There are also quite a few settings to play with as you get used to the gear. A direct plug into the PA head should work very well as far as allowing you to hear differences between models.

-Bob

bigredbass · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:09:37 PM »

I would MUCH rather have an f2b, f1x, a Demeter preamp, or any of the 'tube channel' devices such as Avalon or Millennia, etc.

I'd MUCH rather trade any supposed versatility that these idiot boxes offer (I'm SURE I'm going to sound just like an Acoustic 360 through a 210 rig!?!?!) for the tone and superior electronic performance (NOISE) of a dedicated bass preamp or channel strip, not to mention a tube in the signal path or transformer balanced outs. This is NOT to be underestimated as any poor performance or buzz or noise is gonna be right in your ears: You can't get away from it, and if you pull them out, you can't hear yourself since you don't have an amp(!).

There's LOTS of things that sound great live and turn into crap in the unyielding glare of the recording environment, or any close listening situation like the in-ear monitors. What would I want to sound like out front given a choice of a POD or an ALEMBIC, Demeter, etc.? That's not even a question to me.

J o e y

bigredbass · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:17:11 PM »

You know, the more I read this, the less I liked it. There's plenty amps that don't sound 'woofy and muffled' if you can learn to read your room and set up accordingly.

Why can't you all just TURN DOWN yourselves to control your stage volume? And if EVERYTHING is going to be mixed from the desk, it better be a damn good live FOH guy. He must be pretty good, as it sounds like he's talked you all into a pretty severe solution to lower your stage volume. What are the other pieces doing, how are the guitar(s) and keys going 'ampless'?

J o e y

hankster · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2006, 04:46:43 PM »

Joey,

I think you are right about this. Keeping stage volume low is possible, and getting a good sound off the stage is also possible, if you know your equipment and listen carefully.

Rick

811952 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2006, 06:50:16 PM »

Joey hit it on the head: You need a really good sound guy, otherwise no matter what you do it will stand a 50/50 chance of sounding like pure garbage. That said, I stand by my belief that you will be able to hear yourself just fine from the house system if everyone else is running direct as well and the sound guy actually puts you in the mix. In-ears will be gravy and you'll probably be able to run them pretty low.

The bass pod pro isn't good for much where you can *really* hear it dry, but for live sound it is pretty good. Yes, it will sound like an Acoustic 360 through your 210 rig (my first real amp was a 370 with the 301 folded horn, so I have an idea what they sound like). The other presets are pretty believeable as well. And yes, the effects are almost totally useless (if I wanted '70s era effects, I would get the real thing at the pawn shop!). I do think you'll get the most mileage running direct or through an F2B or somesuch and letting the sound guy shape/butcher/ignore your signal as he needs to fit all the musical pieces together song by song. As with all things, I recommend as much experimentation as your bandmates will humor.

Is your FOH guy a keeper? Have you worked with him enough that you trust him to know how you want to sound?

Another thought: If you don't have to worry about an amp, you are free to wander the house during soundcheck to verify you've got tone you can live with...

John

dannobasso · « **Reply #8 on:** September 30, 2006, 06:38:08 AM »

I find it records really well in a lot of situations. Live I like to use my hi fi gear but I'm less picky because every venue is different. I put everything into the performance regardless of the amp set up. I just stopped doing sound for an agency because he insisted on loud obnoxious uneven mixes. Now he uses a company that mixes loud but is rude, late and prone to feedback. I guess my point is, when you have control of your environment use it. When you don't, play like you do. I love to play loud but most bands (including the wedding variety) are way too loud and the PA's can't keep up.

88persuader · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:35:56 PM »

Well I bought a BassPodxt anyway and frankly love it. I have an AMPEG SVTPRO5 head(I think it's discontinued)and an Ampeg 4x10 bottom with a horn. Today I plugged the PODxt directly into the amp section of my Ampeg bypassing the internal pre amp to see what the pod would sound like as the preamp and I was very pleased! Like it's been mentioned I don't OWN an Eden or VOX bass amp so I don't know how REAL the models are but it sure gives me a lot to pick from and some real high quality sounds. I'm NOT into effects but the Auto WHA is kind of cool for funk.

In regard to stage volume ... I play rock and the drummer i work with is an awesome singer and performer but he's a BANGGER! HE'S the single biggest reason we have a stage volume issue. Because he sings A LOT we don't want to plexy glass him (tried it) because the lights reflect off of it and you can't see him good. If I play loud enough on stage to hear myself good over him I'm too loud for a lot of the bars we play so in ear monitors will help fix that situation. In regard to the sound man, a sound man will make or break you ... we all know this. BUT like it or not, stage amp or not the sound man CONTROLS what you sound like out front. If he doesn't put my bass through the system because I'm too loud on stage my sound is going to be muffled and suck out front, doesn't matter how good it sounds to me on stage. So I have no choice but to trust him. And if I make his job easier there's a better chance I and the band will sound good. And yes the guitarist and keyboards are all going ampless too ... unheard of in a guitarist. He's using some Boss equipment along with preamp to get his sound. He's having a problem getting that clean powereful Marshal sound but has everything else he needs. Fact is we're all doing with a little less in regard to our personal sound in the hope that the over-all sound of the band and presentation is better. The actual bass sound through the pod (or direct into a board) may not be quite the same as what comes out of my Ampeg but then again ... if the sound man can't put me in the mix because I'm too loud it doesn't matter ... my sound out front will suck. It's an experiment in hopes for some real balance. If we give the sound man volume from stage that over shadows the front end it doesn't matter how good our equipment is, we're going to sound bad. So we ... and all us we gigging musicians have no choice but to work WITH our sound men. like it or not THEY control our sound, not our amps and not our Alembics. They can make a $300 Fender sound awesome out front and a $5000 Alembic sound like crap ... sad but true. So by going ampless we're giving total control to the soundman. He has NO EXCUSES to not give us a balanced mix out front. He won't be able to say the bass is too loud on stage because there'll be no bass sound ON stage. We're even trying to talk our drummer into going with V-drums. ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD if this doesn't work ... we still own our amps! :-) Wish us luck!

88persuader · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2006, 11:00:57 PM »

BTW it has a model of an Alembic F2-B. I'd LOVE to be able to A/B that to see how close it comes!

88persuader · « **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2006, 11:47:23 PM »

Also BTW ... this wasn't the sound man's idea, it was something the guitarist and i have been talking about trying for a few years now. We run wireless and walk around the room to check the job the soundman is doing. Much of the time the bass isn't in the mix because it FILLS the room on it's own. Problem is if you're more then 10 feet from the cab the sound is muddy. And the guitar amp sounds good through the system but if you're in direct line of the speaker it'll saw your head off. Then you get all the bleed from the floor monitors. In some rooms mixing live can be a horror show. Trying this ampless aproach is not the soundman's idea, it's ours. Of course he LOVES the idea but it's not his. And to tell you the truth ... I'm sick of lugging around a 50lb head and 90lb bottom to every gig. A bass pod weights what ... 5lbs? Sounds good to me!! In any event it's what we're trying. I'll report back to the club once we get this into full gear and let you know how it's working out. But honestly my initial reaction to the sound i'm getting from the bass pod going direct into the poweramp section of my SVT into a 4X10 cab is WOW, i'm very impressed. Next step is in ear monotors and NO AMP. Can't wait to give it a try.

88persuader · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2006, 01:48:19 AM »

Oh and Joey, I hear with you're saying about some amps not sounding woofy ... but it depends on the room and application ... and the amp. Front loaded cabs, as most bass amps are now a days are short throw cabs. They're sound developes about 10 FT in front of them and then turns to rummble. It will sure shake the house but you lose note clearity. So even in big rooms my if i have too much volume on stage it adds mud to the mix. I can fiil most rooms with sound, the question is the quality of that sound once your more then 10 ft away from the amp.

811952 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:05:13 AM »

Raymond,

You will quickly learn to hate electronic drums. They are a lot like a drum machine. If your drummer is loosey-goosey, they will sound exactly like a poorly programmed drum machine. If your drummer is excellent, they will sound exactly like a drum machine. Maybe you can talk him into a short screen...

It sounds like things will work out well for you guys, largely because you're all willing to compromise for the greater good.

John

hb3 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2006, 07:38:06 AM »

Even V Drums sound like crap? Really? I'd like opinions on this.