Fretless setup

[gare]

I recently stepped into the fretless domain, picked up a used one, bolt on neck.  
My question is..is there any real trick etc to setting one up ? Or just use the same techique as a fretted instrument ?
 
G

[bob]

It seems to depend on who you ask...
 
There are some who argue that the nut should be lower (strings almost grazing the end of the fingerboard), and that the neck should be perfectly straight (no relief at all).
 
That doesn't work for me, personally. I haven't measured lately, but as I recall my numbers were very close to what Joey has recently posted, for a fretted bass. I may have *slightly* less relief and maybe the nut is a tiny bit lower than if I were playing fretted (don't have one to compare), but it's probably very close.
 
Especially while getting used to it, I would suggest you start by copying a fretted setup that works for you. Then you might try straightening the neck a little, especially if you want to get more mwah out of it, but you may also find it more frustrating to play at first.

[inthelows]

Depending on what you think needs to be done at this point, what's going on? There are some threads in the FAQ's under must reads fretless and setups that might be a start. String height, intonation, fretboard condition, nut and bridge issues, neck bowing or warping. Intonation is a big part but because you are not limited by the frets you can be deceived about intonation. Better to check at different points on the neck.
The fretless can sometimes have more punch and growl and hitting the note right on takes a little time to adjust where to finger on the fretboard. Your playing style and music can also make a difference for string height. More aggressive, popping, heavy fingering or thumb you may want the strings higher. A softer style you can get away with the lower string height. Flat wound or nylons are nicer to the fretboard than roundwounds(usually brighter sounding) although I know some swear by them but they're rough on the fretboard.So where are we...It's similar but individual preferences have a lot to do with it. Sometimes you have to experiment to get your groove!!! I've had fretless P-bass,Ovation Typhoon and currently playing upright Schroetter. Every one of them with their own personalities..Check out the forums must reads..Happy fingering!!
NLP

[keurosix]

Gary,
I have a Dean 6 string fretless,and my Alembic Epic 5 string. Each are slightly different, however, the Dean came to me as a new purchase. The factory setup was perfect. Very low action, perfectly straight neck, low string height at the nut. It plays evenly across the complete neck with lots of mwah. Too bad it does not have Alembic electronics. My Alembic was a used purchase that needed setting up and a touch up on the fingerboard from my luthier. Now it's action is slightly higher than the Dean, and the neck has a very minor relief. The playability is superb. Mwah flys off the strings. This baby really sings! I can't put it down. I agree with the comments above, but would state that fretless is a different guitar than a fretted, and because you will play it differently than a fretted bass, the set up will probably be different too. you will need to experiment. I find I use a bit more pressure on the string to get it to sound correctly, so that might take a bit of getting used to.
Kris

[88persuader]

Personally ... I know there are accepted guidelines most people follow but I've always set up my own basses and rely on my gut! I tend to keep the action slightly low on my fretted basses because i like to slap and pop a lot. To make up for the fact the strings are low I use heavy gage strings to keep them a little more stiff so I don't hit the fretboard with the string while playing finger style. My Fretless is a Modulus Quamtum with a graphite neck and finger board. The neck is so stiff i could use it as a softball bat so I keep it just curved enough not to buzz and I keep the strings very low. Again I use heavy gage strings. A plus is the heavy strings have a slightly richer tone. But again ... it's up to you what you like. I know players who have the string so close to the neck I can't play their bass, all i get is buzz. They use a pick and play light, I play light but finger style. So I think there ARE guidlines that are good starting points ... then customize it to YOUR personal taste. Just my opinion.

[keith_h]

I try to keep mine as flat as possible. I give just enough relief to keep it from buzzing.  
 
Keith

[gare]

Thanks for the info.
I actually started with Bob's method.
The instrument is a Dean Edge with a bolt on neck. I've made several truss rod adjustments, the bridge is down as far as it'll go, but the action above the 12th fret is higher than I'd like.
 
G

[keurosix]

Gary,
A Dean is not an Alembic. A bolt-on is not a neck thru. Having said that, it's a good thing you have a bolt on. You can adjust the action by removing the neck and shimming under the end of the neck in the pocket with something like a few guitar picks or plastic material that won't compress. This can get you a better neck angle and will allow you to get the right string height. Or.. use a lighter gage string.You might try taper core strings which drop lower on the bridge saddles. Worst case, replace the bridge with a better quality after market one.
Kris

[gare]

Hi Kris
Yes, a Dean is most definitely not an Alembic..but the price was right.
I've been considering shimming the neck,for strings I'm using 100-45's which is what I use on my other basses.  
thanks for the info...hope I dont have to get out the BFH for some fine adjustments.
 
G

[edwin]

I think this a very subjective thing. Fretless means different things to different people. Are you looking for a sustainy Jaco sound or a thumpy Rick Danko sound? I have found the truss rod adjustment to be the most important. This will define how much sustain and mwah you have. I like a fairly low action which gives maximum mwah. There's a sweet spot in there, so experiment until you find it. I play David King fretless 5 and I find that once I got everything where I wanted it, the only adjustment it needs is a tweak on the trussrod if I go from super dry (Colorado) to super humid (Oregon) and from experience it becomes a 15 second adjustment and I am good to go. There is a fretless Orion that I played at the home base that is still talking to me, but I don't know if I can swing the price.
 
Fretless is a lot of fun!
Edwin

[keurosix]

Gary,
Good luck on the setup. I forgot to mention a few more things that might help. If you don't want to shim the neck, or can't, you can file the string saddle notches deeper on the bridge without too much investment. Definitely check the neck with a precision straight edge (Machinist's scale). Sometimes bolt-on necks warp right at the neck pocket as a result of the strain caused by the bolts. When the weather takes a turn, sometimes the wood reacts, and the bolts can loosen up. A tightening of the bolts can stress the wood some more causing a warpage. Most severe warpage is with a neck that has already been shimmed in the neck pocket. As you tighten the bolts, the wood is deformed into the pocket, and can cause an upturned warp. A truss rod adjustment will not fix this. Only removal of the shim or a fingerboard dressing can fix it. A catch 22: Damned if you do - damned if you don't. I personally don't like bolt-ons cuz I think they are like a car with a bolt on wheel. The car won't go without it, but you can't change a flat if the wheel was welded on. so why design a neck to be changed when it goes flat? Only reason I can figure is the cost to produce it. CHEAP! My Dean 6 string Edge was under $600 new with a hard shell case. Good bang for the buck! Some purists I've talked to say asian hard woods are not the same as american kiln-dried stock. I don't know for sure. Korea has been making guitars now for decades. workmanship seems good on my Dean, but not boutique level craftsmanship at that price!
Kris

[David Houck]

 
 
(Message edited by davehouck on November 10, 2006)