Gigging AMP LESS!

[edwardofhuncote]

I dug up this old thread in search of information... didn't really find anything helpful here, but I needed a place to post a couple-three dumb (innocently, even gleefully ignorant) questions about how to pull this task off and be somewhat happy with the sound of my Alembics.

If I'm going to play any gigs this year, it's going to be with my bass plugged direct into the band PA. I have a pretty nice DI, a fairly new product from Mesa, the Subway+ DI, basically replaces my bass rig. (I hope)

So... without going down the rabbit-hole of IEMs just yet, (I really hate having anything in my ears... headphones are okay, but I can't stand earbuds) what is available out there for a decent monitor speaker that;

A.) isn't huge... we tend to end up playing places with tight stages, footprint/floor space will be an issue.

B.) sounds good... the whole reason for looking is that the monitor wedges they have get them by okay upfront, but I can't hear them from where I am in the back, and the bass response is anemic, to say the least. This monitor will be assigned to me, and I'd like for it not to suck all the fun out of playing a really nice bass.

C. Tough. This thing is going to ride and live in the HGB bandwagon. You need a tetanus shot just for load-in, and The Beast has very little charm or amenity... you can change clothes or have a band meeting in relative privacy.

I may have more later, but for now I'm just looking for a simple solution... a good monitor wedge that can handle bass.

?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?

*and if someone can explain whether or not a powered monitor would be of any advantage. I'm not sure that's something I can really use in this application, though it'd be fine with my preamp out. I just wouldn't be getting the feed from the rest of the band, and they wouldn't be getting mine. (I don't think)

Here's the interface:

[lbpesq]

Gregory, have you considered a personal spot monitor?  I don’t know how well it would work for bass, but I recently picked up this little powered monitor that fits on a mic stand so you can place it near your ears.  I’ve used it for guitar in a situation where I couldn’t hear myself well, as well as for a personal vocal monitor.  Small, light, and effective.

Bill, tgo

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/kustom-kustom-kpc4p-powered-monitor-speaker/h77537000000000?pfm=search_page.rr1%7CRecentHistoricalItems

[JimmyJ]

Hey Gregory,

Well now... This is basically my whole deal when I'm on the road with smaller bands.  DI, no bass amp, monitor wedge behind me.  But I don't carry a wedge, I use whatever the house PA supplies.  (And that can be hit-and-miss, sometimes not very joyful.)

So the questions are these:
#1. Are you just trying to not use a bass amp?  I understand there are some great small bass rigs available these days but if you're going for the full range tone then a personal wedge could be great.  And a powered wedge combined with that Mesa box would probably work VERY well!

-or-

#2. Are you intending to use your personal wedge to also monitor the sound the other band members are making?  If that's what you're thinking it gets a bit tricky.  Because now you need to interface with whatever the house PA can send you - in other words, you need a monitor mix.  It would be difficult to predict what kind of monitor system you would find at any particular venue so interfacing with their amplifiers might be more difficult than having a powered wedge and requesting a line level send from the PA board.  But as you see this is getting complicated because you'd be relying on the idea that they could provide that send.  You are also turning control of your bass amp over to somebody else - who mid-set might decide the bass needs more high-end in the house PA and suddenly the bass sound coming out of your wedge sounds like a Twinkie.  (That has happened to me...)

I do believe there are some great small lightweight full-range powered monitors out there and if you're just trying to change your rig to a new configuration then I think you're onto something.  If that's your idea, I'd put your self-contained bass wedge behind you and then ask for a house wedge to monitor the other band members as needed.

Jimmy J

[cozmik_cowboy]

https://meyersound.com/product/mjf/

Peter

[edwardofhuncote]

Bill, that was the one of the first ones that popped up in my search this morning, and I wondered if I'd just be too underwhelmed by what a 4-1/2" driver could do. I've been surprised by things before though.

Jimmy, I knew you were one of those guys who is perpetually ampless and DI'd, so I was hoping for your opinion. The long and short of it... with one cervical fusion behind me and another one pending, by the time I haul a stack of speaker cabinets and peripherals from the gig-mobile to the stage of whatever thing we're playing, set everything up and unpack a bass... I don't have enough gas left to play two or three sets. Simple lack of physical strength. 

I'm looking for an easier way to keep playing is all... if I can show up with my bass and this DI pedal, and patch into the band's equipment, it might be worth buying a dedicated monitor speaker to keep with their stuff.

Yes ideally, I'd like to hear what's going on with the guys upfront coming through my monitor. I've never had that before, but I was more mobile before too, and I could get 8 or 10 feet from my rig, hear/interact with them, and still hear plenty of bass. Those Bag End 15's were all the stage volume needed. We almost always sent a line to the PA from the amplifier's DI. (mine has a pre/post switch) so 'dry signal' bass was always in the house mains too, though on some small venue occasions, I just didn't need to be.

I'm just worried that I will miss that bass sound coming a box behind me I guess. I sure won't miss lugging the boxes. 

Coz, ever the sound-guy emeritus, most definitely knows the GOOD STUFF. I'm scared to look up what one of those MJF-208's cost. 

[lbpesq]

Gregory, as you know I’m not a bass player.  But I do have a bass, (one I built with Alembic electronics),  a DI, and the Kustom personal monitor.  I should be able to find the time tomorrow to hook them all up and try it out.  While the quality of the tone is subjective, I can at least let you know if it rattles or is totally unworkable and give you my impressions.

Bill, tgo

[rv_bass]

Accugroove makes a mini wedge, powered and non-powered, but they are pricey and you would still have to carry it.

https://accugroovellc.com/collections/bass-cabinets/products/miniwedge

Maybe that Acoustic Image light weight Clarus amp and small cab that you posted on the other thread would do the trick.

[edwardofhuncote]

I look forward to the findings of your 420 bass with that Kustom monitor, Bill.    y'know, at <$100 bucks... even if it didn't fit this particular application, a pair of them might be just the ticket for the small PA our oldtyme band uses for weddings and cocktail hour gigs. Hmm.

I really like both the Acoustic Image and the AccuGroove stuff too, Rob. The Acoustic Image cabinetry seems to be much more specific to 'playing nice' with their amps, FWIW, but their amps don't seem to care what speaker cabinets they are driving, if that makes any sense. Most often, I use a Bag End S10-D with my Acoustic Image amp. (upright rig) I'd be curious to see how the Doubleshot 2×10 stacked up against it. If it had enough oomph to cover me for an HGB gig, I'd say problem solved.

I'm tempted to just borrow/rent myself a nice monitor wedge from a local pro-audio shop here in town for a weekend gig, and see if that plan works out like I think. Jimmy J's point about a powered wedge with my Mesa DI is well-taken... I'd like to pilot that too, just to see if it feels anything like what I'm used to, or more correctly - if I could get used to. I can see that working... it would still be a much easier setup than what I have been doing.

Definitely need to try both passive and powered wedges to know, and eventually buy something exactly suited. In either scenario, I'd go ahead and sell my Bag End S15 X-D's and the Mesa D-800 I've been using to drive them... there would be no need for that rig anymore. It's not like any one piece of it is prohibitively heavy... it's just so many trips to the car and so much work setting up and tearing down. Sounds absolutely ridiculous though, and I hate to think about giving it up. Just keep telling myself - this is how you can keep playing... don't use up all the juice up getting ready for the show. Something's gotta' change or I'm playing at the house from now on.

Thanks fellas. I got some more reading to do. 

[StephenR]

Gregory, I second Rob's suggestion. You already have the AI Clarus amp, the little speaker you posted about in his query thread about the Clarus weighs 15 lbs. I have an Acoustic Image Coda R amp that I bought about 16 years ago to use with my Turner Renaissance five-string. That cab has only one down-firing 10" speaker and a 5" front-firing speaker with 400 watts of power available and can get quite loud. It does work best if there is a wall nearby for the sound to reflect from and it needs to be set on the floor for the same reason but it's a surprisingly robust amp that weighs less than 20 lbs and is only about 15" high. I can hook it to a second speaker as long as that cabinet is a 4 ohm cabinet. When I used it with my Eden 4x10 it was loud, I really should try hooking it up to my Barefaced Super Twin which is an even more efficient cabinet with much better sound.  I brought the Coda R, and my Renaissance bass to a band gig where we were opening with an acoustic set that the drummer was not supposed to play on. I set the Coda up next to my big bass rig. When we started the acoustic set the drummer decided he wanted to play, too, and I was worried that I would not be able to hear myself but I had zero issues hearing my bass clearly and it sounded great. I was also in the monitors but the majority of what I heard from where I was back near the drums was from the AI amp. Since I got my Coda R Acoustic Image has released a few different small cabinets like the one you posted about that I am sure project better, and get louder, than my Coda R. As you probably are aware they have excellent customer service and pretty much warranty everything for life even if you are not the original owner. Expensive gear but you get what you pay for.

Good luck finding a solution that works! My decision to invest quite a bit of money on lightweight gear was predicated by no longer being physically capable of moving anything heavy without risking a gig played in pain so I totally understand the quest to be able to find a way to continue to perform.

[edwardofhuncote]

Thanks Stephen. 

Yep, Acoustic Image is headquartered just a couple hours from here, in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina. (kinda' like Mesa is to you guys...) A good number of my extended family lives near there. Not only that, but one of their bigger distributors is Gollihur Music, with whom I do a fair amount of business in my upright bass repair shop. Trying one of the new Doubleshot 2×10's out is way up on my list. I had one of the earlier Contra combo-cabs too. (my Dad gigs with it and his '51 Kay now)

Once again, this place really delivers... you ask for advice, and by golly, you get some top-notch, pro-grade, first-hand, useful advice.

[JimmyJ]

You could also drop by your local gym, find a young strong dude who drives a van, and hire him as the band's roadie!  I'm kinda thinking that unless you get a very costly pro wedge (which would probably still be heavy) you're gonna miss the sound of your current bass rig, which you say you love.  That's probably not something you want to give up if it makes it fun to play...  Having a crew guy might even be cheaper in the long run.  Ha!

My situation is odd because I never got into amps or even preamps as part of my sound.  I grew up playing DI in studios and listening on headphones so I'm used to hearing my bass through a full-range flat system.  I love it that way but it's hardly anybody else's cup of tea..

Jimmy J

[edwardofhuncote]

If I weren't afraid his Granny (my Mom) would kill me, this punk-kid here with the smirk and the fiddle would have that roadie job. And quite possibly the fiddle job too. My nephew is already a monster guitar player. 

[keith_h]

How much weight do you want to limit this too? How much money do you have to spend?

I'd consider something like the JBL PRX812. It weighs about 50 lbs and wouldn't take much room. You could set it up as a traditional monitor or vertically like a main.

[lbpesq]

Gregory, I tried out the Kustom spot monitor with my bass through a DI today.  Not bad, better than I expected.   The monitor did not fart out, even on the low E.   If you were playing with a full rock band, I don’t think this would cut it.  Playing with a miked acoustic band might work.   I got a decent sound, but I had to crank the monitor and the bass.  I’m thinking if you found a similar unit with a little more power, it just might work.   I would also look for a spot monitor with some type of tone control, or run the bass through a little mixer before the monitor to get a little more flexibility.  The concept of using a small monitor raised to ear level on a mic stand definitely has its merits.  Hope this helps.

Bill, tgo

[cozmik_cowboy]

I'm with Jimmy - hire a roadie!  (And that is, of course, a completely objective conclusion  )


Peter (who wishes he could still offer his services  [size=78%])[/size]