Author Topic: Gigging AMP LESS! (Read 740 times)

88persuader · « **on:** October 26, 2006, 10:01:05 PM »

Well friends ... this weekend my band One Fine Mess will be gigging at a place Called J Rags in Tewksbury MA. It's our 1st gig running TOTALLY AMP LESS! For years we've been gigging and like most have issues in different rooms because the rooms are small and our stage sound is too loud. We like running everything through the front end sound system but if the drums are too loud they don't get supported. If the bass is keeping up with the too loud drummer the bass doesn't go through the front end ... and so on. So the guitarist and I both bought amp simulation gear ... him Bose, me Line-6. The keyboard player is going direct and the drummer bought a new set of Roland V-drums. (TD-12's for those of you who know the difference in models) This weekend we'll monitor our stage sound with wedge monitors with 4 seperate mixes so we can all have our own personal mix. These mixes will be low enough in volume that it won't bother the front end sound. And if it does next week we'll run with in ear monitors rather than the wedges. The sound man has a huge full 3 way sound system (Including subs) and frankly will have NO EXCUSE not to make us sound great. There will be no sound interference from the stage so all the crowd will be hearing will be our mixed processed THUMPING sound. I also own V-drums (TD-10s) so we've rehearsed like this the past few weeks and it's been very successful. It's nice to play, hear everyone, hear yourself hear the singing and harmonies and not go deaf at rehearsal from acoustic drums in a small area. I expect this to be a great sucess! I'll write back Sunday night/Monday morning and let you know how it went! (Of course we run wireless too so I'll be able to go out in the crowd and hear for myself how it sounds. I won't have to take anyone's WORD.) Oh ... and I've heard people say You'd better have a sound man you trust to do this! Well the fact is with or without amps you'd better have a sound man you trust because regardless what you think ... your sound is in their hands. IMO we're just making it as easy as possible for him to optimize our over all sound. If he can't mix us correctly running amp less ... he's fired! Because WE can mix ourselves correctly at rehearsal. Running live equiped like this is no different then running it at rehearsal ... just better bigger sound equipment.
Wish us luck!

bracheen · « **Reply #1 on:** October 27, 2006, 03:13:20 AM »

Good luck, it sounds in theory like the ideal situation. I hope everything works out for you. Maybe you could get a couple of washing machines like Geddy Lee.

Sam

alembic76407 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2006, 05:46:03 AM »

I have a Question, when you need that to-die-for sustain and feedback do you turn and face the Pod-6 or what ?
how does that work?

David T ( TLO)

lbpesq · « **Reply #3 on:** October 27, 2006, 06:52:46 AM »

Raymond:

I'm definitely looking forward to the review. Good luck!

Bill, tgo

811952 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 27, 2006, 07:59:12 AM »

Should be excellent. Good luck and have fun!

88persuader · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2006, 11:36:27 AM »

Well friends ... the 1st night had a few rough spots at 1st but after a set or so the sound was cooking. On stage it was strange. 1st the V-drums weren't tweaked yet. The dummer was using the out of the box drum kits because he only had it for a few days and frankly hasn't had time to learn them yet. But all in all it was a very successful 1st night for this experiment. In regard to Alembic76407's question. The funny thing is the to die for sustain is easy with today's electronics. It's the punchy clean TUBE sound the guitarist is having problems getting. The bass tone was killer. On stage it didn't have the sound pressure I'm use to generating. After all I've been running an ampeg SVT ProV bridged at 1350WTS. But in the front end the bass had awesome pressence because it was 100% in the system. This is still a work in progress. We need to figure out how to make things sound normal to us on stage. We may end up doing the in ear monitors just so we can have a more natural sound in our ears. It's a little strange rocking out at 1/3rd the normal stage volume including drums. BUT it defintely had the desired effect out front. Sounded awesome. And the little problem the guitarist is having getting that tube sound ... truth be told HE's the only person who notices it's loss. Soooooooooooooooooo all in all this looks like a success!

dadabass2001 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2006, 05:00:56 PM »

Raymond,
May I suggest an F1-X or F2-B for the tube sound your guitarist wants? The DI on the F1-X should provide just the ticket, and the effect loop could still house his Bose if it provides other useful tones.
Mike

hb3 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2006, 05:48:02 PM »

It's a little strange rocking out at 1/3rd the normal stage volume including drums.

That actually sounds really appealing.

88persuader · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2006, 02:04:44 PM »

Well after the 2nd night I'm sold ... a total sucess! I suggest anyome using a big sound system with subs try this aproach. Talk about a perfect kicking front end mix. And on stage it also improved. The drummer put on head phones. He use to hearing himself OVER everyone else which is the main reason we tried this. Soooooooo if he needs to be WICKED loud to feel natural he has his head phones! Over all ... msjor success!

dean_m · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:32:19 AM »

Hey Raymond,
Hey everyone..... I know it's been a while!!!!!

Wow I click on this link and I see you playing at J Rags in Tewksbury. What a trip to come to the Alembic Club and see a listing for a gig in my (old) hometown.

Anytime I can avoid having to bring (move, carry, lift) a rig to a gig, I'm all for it!!!!

Peace,
Dino

paulman · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:57:32 AM »

Congratulations. It's so much fun to experiement isn't it??

On the sound guy topic, we run with no sound guy, or sound board for that matter. It's up to each person how their mix is.

88persuader · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2006, 09:37:09 PM »

Hi Dean ... Actually I've moved to NH. Live in Hudson now ... a BIG step up! One thing Lowell use to have going for it that was a lot of local musical talent. My band plays Rags every few months. Starting this November it's under new management so we might drop the place. Luckily we have a strong enough following that work is not a problem.

In regard to ampless ... we played a private party in Beverly last Saturday at the Franco Amarican. They had us in a closet sized room. With amps and acoustic drums we would have totally over powered the room even playing as lightly as we could. Amp less, everything going through the front end we sounded like a thumping CD ... perfect for any size room. I LOVE it! Best decision we ever made. And i just bought a Mackie 1501 powered sub, a QSC power amp and a Mackie CFX16 MK II sound board for small places we don't want to use a sound man at. The system kicks so much butt and it's so easy to mix the band since there are no loud amps or acoustic drums that we're going to be able to go without a soundman for all but our bigger shows. And being from the area you know there aren't too many BIG rooms in northern MA, southern NH. So it gives us REAL control over what the crowd hears ... it's much better then not moving equipment. The best part is always having a killer sound, always sounding good. As long as we PLAY good we sound good ... it's awesome! I'll NEVER go back to using an amp live in one of my bands. I'll keep my ampeg rig for fill in gigs! :-)

TTFN
Ray

dean_m · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2006, 11:16:38 PM »

Hey Ray,

Wow man!!!! I'm in Litchfield NH now too. I just got tired of MA rhetoric.
I'm still using a small rig every Saturday night at Princeton Station on Saturdays but it's mostly because I like having it on stage behind me. It's kinda uneccessary though as our Mackie PA does most of the work. If you want to get together some day, hit me an email at dino@monotunesmusic.com

Peace,
Dino

88persuader · « **Reply #13 on:** November 12, 2006, 04:51:45 PM »

Dean just FYI. I wrote you but it got kicked back by your spam filter. my e-mail is korg@adelphia.net.

Ray

dean_m · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2006, 09:09:10 AM »

Hey Ray,

Yeah that's my spam filter but all you need to do is just reply to it so it knows you're a valid email address. In fact you must have done just that cause I did get your email.

Peace,
Dino