Need Advice on Monitors

[lbpesq]

I pulled out my old Carvin floor wedges for the first time since I lent them out last May, only to discover they are blown.  I'm thinking it's time to upgrade anyway, so I'm looking for advice on what to get.  I prefer 12s for the size and convenience, but I'm also open to moving up to 15s.  I'm using them almost exclusively for vocals at rehearsal and the smaller gigs where there isn't a house P.A.  
 
Any suggestions?  
 
Bill, tgo

[bsee]

I really don't think you need 15s for vocals only.  In your position, I might even look at the smaller monitors that mount onto the mic stand.  I think they have little powered ones that are fine for vocals and ultra-portable.  
 
Personally, I have Peavey 15s that I have had for most of 15 years.  I wish I had 12s instead, but it hasn't been enough of an issue to go for the trade-in.
 
For another band that I am in, the PA owner has two 15s and two 12s.  I always get one of the 12s and the only issue is one of volume.  We have to attenuate the 15s a little to balance the volume across the stage.  Tone-wise, though, the 12s are just fine.
 
Of course, it also depends on how stupid you let your stage volume get...

[dannobasso]

I have jbl mpro 15's and 12's. I just got the mrx line 12's and 15's for an install. 12's are compact and light and can get reasonably loud enough for a person who has some hearing left. 15's are better for bass response. I use them for drummers and diva females who have hearing and ego issues. The mrx line is well built and are available on ebay for good prices. I ordered from www.roaddogonline.com and was very pleased with their service.

[lbpesq]

oops, another duplicate post.  
 
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Bill, tgo
 
(Message edited by lbpesq on February 11, 2007)

[lbpesq]

Thanks for the response guys.  If 12s are loud enough for Doomtree, I'm sure they'll be loud enough for me, so I think I'm going to try and stick with 12s.  The JBL mrx line looks sweet, but is a little more than I want to spend for unpowered monitors.  At that price, I'd be looking at the Mackie SRM350 powered monitors.  (I've been doing my homework on the net).  Has anyone tried these?  Opinions?  
 
I'm also considering the JBL JRX112M monitor.  Anyone tried these?  Thanks for any insights.
 
Bill, tgo

[alembic_doctor]

Hey Bill.
 
Here's the deal.  You wanna make sure that no matter what you get, you have enough power to run it.  I never sell 15 wedges to anyone for anything except for maybe the drummer.  Also, I recommend a good EQ.  preferably one with a high-pass filter on it.  Turn the high pass up to at least 100Hz.  This will keep out possibility for low frequency feedback and give you more power where you need it, the vocal range.
 
We always specify an amplifier that is at least double the power of the RMS on the Speaker.  i.e. if you have a wedge that has an RMS of 250 Watts then give it a 500 Watt power amp.
 
The JRX112M posts a Power Capacity of 250 Watts @ 8 Ohms and a Peak Power Capacity of 1000 Watts.
 
We would put no less thatn a 500 Watt @ 8 Ohm amplifier on this.  We'd recommend the 1000 Watt amp though.
 
Now personally, I am recommending and selling a lot of Active wedges now.  I sell a lot of these http://www.dbtechnologies.com/mod_produkte.cfm?pid=54&pgid=1&pugid=34&psugid=0
 
The Italians have been sleepers for years in the pro audio world.  They make amazing speakers and amplifiers.  They're amplifiers look like Ferrari engines on the inside.  And the best thing is that the pricing is very affordable.
 
I personally don't like to use the Mackies as wedges.  They were designed as a FOH speaker and they work good for that because the horn throws sound in such a huge pattern for coverage, 80x90.  That's what makes it bad for a monitor wedge.  Bad monitor.  Bad.
 
Not meaning to be a hawk here, but you can contact me directly Bill for some pricing on whatever you want if you like.

[pace]

I'd keep it local, Bill.....
 
http://www.meyersound.com/products/

[lbpesq]

Let me be a little more specific.  I'm not looking to drop a lot of $ here.  I'd like to keep costs down to $1500 or less for four monitors.  I'm also leaning toward passive as I already have a Carvin stereo power amp that puts out 600 watts per channel or 1200 bridged mono into 2 ohms.  So I guess I'm also looking for efficient speakers for which the Carvin will be adequate.  Do such beasts exist?  I tried the JBL JRX112M monitors today.  I bought four at GC, two in the box and two from the floor as there were no more in the box.  When I got them home I discovered that both from the floor has blown horns.  This did not give me much confidence, so I returned all four.  Also, I found some info on the net that these require a lot of power and I suspect my Carvin may not be sufficient.
 
Bill, tgo

[beelee]

Bill check out Yamaha SM12 IV monitors, I've owned/used 4 of them for many years now, never a problem, never any trouble. I've put vocals, keyboards, gtr synth, drums and taurus pedals through them. 1/4 inch ins/outs, handle about 400 watts ea. and have a pole mount on one side ( can be used as a main ) brand new I paid less than $245 each.
good luck in your search
B.

[88persuader]

Well I'm a big believer in Mackie equipment. My entire sound system is Mackie and i love it. The Mackie 350s are actually 10s but for vocals I'm sure they're awesome. If you really want rediculus BIG sound go with the Mackie 450s ... but IMO they are complete over kill. The 350s should be great as monitors for vocals and a little bleed from the instruments. Just don't put the BASS or KICK drum too loud in them.

[alembic_doctor]

Meyer.  You can buy a better PA.  You just won't pay more for it.
 
Bill, is that 600 Watts @ 8 Ohms or 4 Ohms?  IF it is at 4 Ohms, then make sure you get something that wants to see about 300 Watts RMS.  If you get something that wants 600 at 8 Ohms and you're only giving it 300 Watts, Then you'll eventually blow these as well because you will most likely end up driving the amp into clipping to get the sound/volume you're looking for.
 
Amother good argument for a powered wedge.

[2400wattman]

Bill, here is my 2 cents.  
   I  agree with Bee about the Yamaha stuff. My band takes out p.a. on the road and while our foh gear is all JBL SR series our monitors are Yamaha. They're inexpensive and can take a beating. My singer uses two of the SM15 IV which have the 15 driver and powers them with a Crest CA9, so each wedge gets about 1,000 watts each. We've also found that if you change the horn's diaphragm form the stock 16ohm to an 8ohm it really brightens up the highs without any boosts on the e.q. This setup insures that my singer can effectively hear himself over my 1,000 +watt bass rig, my guitarists two 50 watt half stacks, and my drummer whom pushes a 26 kick, cranked snare drum and 24 ride cymbal( not his entire kit, I just listed the parts that are VERY OVERBEARING ). I would stay away from the Mackie stuff as I've seen too much of it in the repair shops I've been to around the country.  I hope this helps and good luck.

[tbrannon]

Bill,
 
I'd agree with what others have said about Mackie and Yamaha.  I've had a fair bit of experience with both brands and have been pleased with both.
 
I know I'm going to make some of the serious audiophiles cringe, but I wouldn't discount Carvin either- if you're content using their poweramp, how about the monitors they make?  Carvin is what it is, but for monitor use and even live PA I think their stuff is vastly underated. IMO, for the amount of money that you're looking to spend on 4 monitors, you'll probably get far more bang for your buck with a brand like Carvin.
 
Toby

[lbpesq]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Toby, I agree with you about the Carvin monitors, you may have skipped over it, but my original post explains that my old blown monitors were Carvins (model 722 - 12 woofer and horn tweeter), so I was looking to upgrade.  
 
Here's an update:  
 
While I had the JBLs, I tried one of the ones that worked side by side with my one Carvin that was still working.  The JBL did not seem significantly louder or better.  So last night while my wife watched the Grammys (which are getting to be more and more about someone I never heard of presenting an award to someone else I never heard of - also, how many catagories do they have?  Including the awards they kept flashing along the bottom of the screen, I believe roughly 30% of the population got a Grammy last night!), I spread my old Carvins out on the living room floor and starting unscrewing like a madman.  After swapping speakers and horns back and forth a bunch, and repairing a connector that had come loose, I came up with two working monitors and two with both the woofer and the horn blown.  I called Carvin this morning and, to my surprise since I've had these monitors 15 years or so, they had the speakers in stock.  $199 including shipping and they'll be here in two days!  So I'm going to repair the Carvins and see if they'll cut the mustard in this new situation in which I want to use them.  If they aren't enough, I'll think I'll try the Yamahas next.  At least I'll be able to get a better price if I sell my Carvins.  As an aside, after reading that the JBLs were MDF, I was pleasantly surprised when I cracked open the old Carvins and found they were made of real plywood, just like it grows on the ply tree!  Also, the more I think about it, the more I don't want to deal with bringing a power cord to powered monitors.  
 
More wires - aaarrrggghhhh!!!!  
 
Thanks again,
 
Bill, tgo

[tbrannon]

Bill,
 
sorry for that- I read the thread when you first posted it, but somehow that info escaped my brain over the past two days....
 
Glad to see you're taking matters into your own hands.  Let us know how they sound once you get the repaired ones back up and running.
 
Toby