Author Topic: Reverb question RE: Further (Read 187 times)

paulman · « **on:** February 21, 2007, 01:27:44 PM »

For years I have removed the reverb tank from every guitar amp I ever had. I always use a processor and as a result, never noticed much difference. This was before I got my Further. After I got my Further I pretty much used the same exact setup, but the Processor is in the Further trs loop.

I've been goofing around in a studio with my Further, and the guy has a nice Fender amp. I flipped off the effects, and the gorgeous Further tone came through. But there was something extra, sweeter. I finally realized that all this time, I have been missing reverb on the straight Further sounds.

Has anyone else had this experience? I went back and started to listen to my old GD DVD's, and CD's and Jerry always has reverb on. We all know Jerry loved the old Fender Heads.

I am interested in knowing if the Reverb tank is part of the Twin Preamp out on Jerry's heads, or was it added later in processing for PA? I've read many articles about how Jerry loved the Twin sound, was that why?

Once again, Further pushed me into another line of thought.

paulman · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2007, 10:20:46 AM »

Oh, and if anyone has any suggestions for a reverb unit I can toss in the F-1X effects loop (in the end chain between Further and amp) it would be appreciated. Thanks a bunch

alembic_doctor · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2007, 10:52:05 AM »

I'm hawkin' my wares again here.

I recommend the TC Electronic M-OneXL @ @399.99. It has some great reverbs and some other fx as well.

Now, If you're like me, and you are a pro audio snob: Then I recommend the Lexicon PCM81 @1999.99

There are others in between. I like to use the reverb to get a nice rich upright-bowed sound. I curently use an old PCM60 from Lexicon.

kmh364 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2007, 11:08:06 AM »

http://www.dozin.com/jers/rig.html#

http://dozin.com/jers/90srig/90s.html

I'd have to consult the new Blair Jackson book, but I don't think Jerry used the Accutronix spring tanks from the Twin's he used as chassis-only for his rig. It's possible additional reverb was added at the board, but knowing how the Dead liked to control their own sounds and stage mix (Jerry in particular was constantly looking to improve his sound), I assume they didn't mess with his tone too much. Ron Wickersham had the same basic Fender epiphany (although he used a slightly different amp architecture) many moons ago, hence the original F-2B.

Despite all the gear changes, I still dig Jerry's Europe '72 sound the best...modded Graham Nash alligator Strat and all.

Cheers,

Kevin

kmh364 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2007, 11:21:10 AM »

FWIW, having owned a Silverface Twin since '82, I too love the tone that substandard ultralinear transformer-based circuit makes for CLEAN stuff ONLY, especially on the reverb input (vibrato). The master volume circuit, coupled with the horribly tinny Pyle-sourced OEM 12's does not a palpable distortion make (yes it does distort, but it ain't musical IMHO). And yes, I'm a F-2B user as well, although I have only used it for my Alembic bass rig and not for guitar amplification.

My take is that Jerry had the same attitude as David Gilmour did...find a clean, loud, high-headroom amplification source and then dirty it up to your heart's content with effects.

paulman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2007, 01:53:04 PM »

Thanks guys! I've been following the technical specs of Jer's rig for quite some time, even before Dozin (that is a fantastic site) I had been buying every guitar mag, David Gans Book,et c etc referencing Jerry's setup. I have read the Jackson book many times and it's a wonderful addition to the reference material. However the reverb portion of Jer's rig is not really referenced, I assume becuase only a nutty gear head would even think about it.

Looks like it's time to pull out the old R&D budget and get to work.

As Mickey quoted Lay it down dirty, play it back clean. My projector is a Bose Ps-1 so clean is not an issue

And I must say, I don't want to play like Jerry (nor could I) but I would like that kind of clarity and tone.
Thanks again!

paulman · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2007, 01:57:36 PM »

Oh Kev, I know what you mean! the 72-74 era is my fave. Those brown guitar notes send me every time. I don't mean poopy, I mean creamy tasty notes that make me go ahhhhhhhhhhh and zone far away.

elwoodblue · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2007, 01:07:39 AM »

I'm liking my lexicon mx-400(quad)...
still doesn't come close to my Swart amplifier onboard reverb...(and it goes to 11).

tom_z · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2007, 11:08:45 AM »

Roger - Lately I've really been liking the sound of my Lexicon LXP-1. They're out of production but you can pick one up on ebay for around $100. The LXP-1 is a half-rack unit designed primarily for studio use. The one I have has been modified for live performance use by Audio Upgrades in Van Nuys, CA. I think the current cost for the upgrade is $150. So, for less than $300 you can get a pretty awesome little reverb unit.

You can put it in your effects loop or run it in front of your amp. I've recently been using my LXP-1 to run in stereo. Skylark > Mutron III > LXP-1 stereo-out to a Mesa Lonestar and a 1968 Fender Bandmaster. Once I get everything dialed in this setup sounds glorious. It is similar to how Steve Kimock runs his gear and if you've ever heard him live you know his tone is spectacular. Here's a little sample of Kimock with LXP-1 and Mutron so you can get an idea.

Peace
Tom

David Houck · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2007, 01:50:05 PM »

Nice little sample Tom, thanks!!

paulman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2007, 10:22:10 AM »

I love the sounds of the MuTron, I have a Qtron which comes close.

Thanks for the clip, and all of the suggestions. Drummer's going to have her baby any day now

hieronymous · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2007, 10:22:39 PM »

Pretty unrelated, but the only reverb I have is the one built-in to the Roland Space Echo (I've got an RE-201). It really colors the sound, though - so much that I sometimes wonder what the heck it's doing to the sound! But before I realized how much it colored the sound, I used it a lot, pushing the gain so that the needle was in the red a lot of the time, so I guess I liked the sound. Good thing I play bass - I can always split the signal and keep the lows clean - or as clean as it gets through an F2-B with the bass boosted and the volume fairly cranked!

Sorry for the ramble...

paulman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2007, 09:42:36 AM »

That unit looks so cool. I saw Back to the Future again over the weekend, and those knobs are reminiscient of the big speaker/amp in the movie. I love the retro knob/panel look.