Author Topic: Flatwounds! (Read 1397 times)

hieronymous · « **on:** February 19, 2010, 10:34:34 PM »

For the longest time, I considered myself a roundwound player. My favorite bassists (including Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Roger Glover, etc.) all sounded like roundwound players - Long Live the CLANK! But in the past few years, I have been a partial convert to flats. In high school when I put flats on they just sounded like dead roundwounds - I just didn't get it!

It probably started with my Gibsons - the mudbucker barely puts out any highs, so flats seem the way to go. I found out that Phil Lesh used flats with his Guilds and early Alembics with the Grateful Dead, and I knew that classic R'n'B players like Duck Dunn and James Jamerson used flats, so I tried them with my Telembic (Fender Telecaster with Alembic Activators). I loved the results! Even with flats, the Alembic electronics gave enough highs that even slapping sounded great! (IMNSHO of course)

So recently I've been having some issues with my 5-string Signature Standard - since it's short-scale, can't seem to get enough tension on the low-E string. So I finally broke down and ordered a set of D'Addario Chromes with a high C-string - SO FAR SO GOOD! Just enough extra tension, especially on the low-E but on all the strings generally.

So if you've had trouble with tension, maybe flats are a possibility? Anyone else had tension issues? I know we love the Stanley twang, but sometimes flats might be an alternative!

sonicus · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2010, 11:15:19 PM »

I just purchased 6 sets of Pyramid Gold Flats ; 3 long scale & 3 short scale about 2 weeks ago. The Chromes that you have Do have a bit more tension .
http://www.thestringguy.com/tension.html

811952 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2010, 02:48:24 PM »

I have el-cheapo Fender flats on my Series 1-1/2 long scale 4 string. The gang at last Summer's Chicago gathering were, I believe, pleasantly surprised at the sound...

John

pauldo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2010, 03:53:31 PM »

true dat!
John's bass did raise some eyebrows with the flats on it, but the tone was spot on and it felt really smooth!

nnek · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2010, 05:49:20 PM »

well it's funny this topic should show up right now.
I just put a set of chromes on my series 1. Playing at home it sounded very interesting and I love the smooth feel with no tell tale zing as I change position on the neck, but at rehearsal last night I hated it and couldn't get a sound I liked no matter what setting I dialed in. These are going on another bass and it's back to the DR's....

hieronymous · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2010, 08:10:42 PM »

Wolf - have you used the Pyramids before? I'd be interesting in hearing what you think - heck, I live in Oakland too, maybe we could have a get-together/string comparison gathering!

Kenn, what kind of music do you play? I still haven't played this bass through an amp yet with the flats on - Tuesday's the moment of truth!

Flats on an Alembic seems pretty counter-intuitive at first - I think it's a different mind-set and different approach, there are probably some kinds of music they work with better than others...

sonicus · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2010, 09:17:03 PM »

Hieronymous, I have been using the Pyramid Gold Flatwounds since 1974. They sound like nothing else can get close too , to my ears . I used them on my Alembic modified Guild Starfires back then. They are great on the Series II and my Distillate as well and my remaining Alembic Modified Starfire . Back in the 70's I use to visit the old Alembic shop on 60 Bradey St. in San Francisco quite often. Pyramid Gold Strings were STANDARD on many of the Bass's that were hanging on the wall the across from the glass counter. I used to LOVE to go and check out the early Alembic stuff. I remember it it just like it was just yesterday but it was really about 36 years ago ! LOL !!!!
So the first time that I played an Alembic Bass with Pyramid Gold strings was 36 years ago _ Time flies !

I also like the Dean Markley Blue Steel (95-40) on Essence and my Fender Jazz and Precision Bass's.

Sonic Regards ,
Wolf.

811952 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2010, 06:44:27 AM »

So is it somewhat safe to assume the Phil Lesh probably used the Pyramid Gold Flats on Eyes of the World? His tone is remarkable.

John

nnek · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:09:28 AM »

In reply to hieronymous
I was playing with my classic rock band. The sound was very bottom heavy and the high end was easily cut down too low for good definition. Now I must say I prefer all the high cut I can get and usually palm mute at the bridge (which I find most useful with neck-throughs as they tend to ring forever).
At gigs I have had other bass players come up to me and ask , looking closely, if they were flatwound strings on my basses. I like to have it all on tap and mute down to a Jamerson thump but occasionally pop a twangy note and generally use the available twangy headroom for expression depending on the song (Funk needs twang even a slow blues needs the slice to carry on a long note after the initial thump).
So to me the Chromes were all bottom and more bottom with the only high slice coming from playing totally un-muted and as such maybe it is my style that has made them less than useful on the series 1. I would also add that at low volume in my home they seemed like they would work but at volume with drums all the subtle qualities were lost.

willgunn · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:07:23 AM »

On the subject of Classic/Old School R&B bass tone (the exact opposite of the Chris Squire 'clank'), my experience has been that the REAL secret weapon is utilizing a FOAM RUBBER MUTE....with either flats OR round wounds! Soloed, it sounds like absolute crap, but by God, it fits like a glove in the mix like you wouldn't believe! If you haven't tried it, DO so - you'll be absolutely amazed! There was a really good reason why Jamerson, Babbit, etc, did just that back in the day - it just WORKS...particularly in a studio environment.

funkyjazzjunky · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:49:01 AM »

Pyramid flats do not sound like any others. Just as Alembics have unique tone, Pyramis flats do as well.

nnek · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:50:51 AM »

Fender provided Jamerson and Babbit with the mute installed in that chrome bridge cover as standard equipment due to the electric bass being the replacement for the un amplified upright bass (and in upright land the higher the action the louder the sound, higher the action more the thump) and Leo kept up that idea with Music Man with the little tunable mutes for each string. The preferred foam is the dense black stuff.
If you play only in Jamerson's style and do all mowtown the foam setup is an easy fix for consistancy.
I prescribe to the theory that it's all in the hands and would rather not be restricted in my expression. I've owned a lot of Fenders and early MM basses and always took off the bridge covers and mutes to gain access to the bridge as a very important part of my instrument's expression. It does not only affect the initial attack and thump but the decay and sustain too. ie. it affects and limits the availability to play whole notes (with an upright you could always use a bow). Using the palm is like having an instantly variable and available ADSR filter usable with fingers or pick.
(I also prefer to use a two fingers and thumb style with good fingernails so I switch from the severe attack of a fingernail pluck or scratch to the thump of the side of the thumb)
Your best tools should always be at hand to get the job done....

Kenn
P.S. the reason I was trying the flats was to get rid of that annoying zing that happens when you change position quickly on the neck. I'll have to learn to lift my fretting fingers higher and not be so sloppy if I want to keep the Squire clank at the edge of my tonal possibilities.

811952 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2010, 10:43:18 AM »

Sounds like you might want to give half-rounds a go... Bright but very little zing as you move..

sonicus · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2010, 10:50:48 AM »

@ Willgunn, YES if you want to recreate that sound and have or replicate one those original Fender mutes Back in the day that is what those Cats used and they do work ! As far as muting goes I prefer to use the Rocco Prestia method and use my hands, fingers and the palm on my right hand.I played a friends old 1950's Fender Precision once that hand one of those stock mutes and it took some getting used to and he hand an old VERY heavy set of La bella Flat wounds on it .

sonicus · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:05:28 AM »

@811952 , off the top of my head It seem to me that Phil Lesh has used Pyramid Gold Flats as well, But I believe he likes to experiment so perhaps maybe but maybe not ; to answer your question . The Chronology seems correct though .It has been a long time .