Author Topic: Sound equipment in the NY/Ct area  (Read 1121 times)

bsee

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Sound equipment in the NY/Ct area
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2007, 09:20:44 PM »
The 2402 is a lot of power.  The good news is that you can run one side alone if you don't want/need it all.  The other side can be a backup for PA monitors or some such on a gig.  
 
I am considering one of the mini Bose amplifiers for rehearsal with my rig since the power amp is so big.  The PackLite can be had for $300-400 if you can find one and puts 250 watts into 4 ohms.  They're also not much bigger than a box of tissues.

crgaston

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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2007, 09:43:05 PM »
Flax, the 2402 is probably the best bang for the buck out there.  It's relatively light and has plenty of cool features, like switchable lo-cut filters and clip limiting. You can run both channels off 1 mono signal just by flipping a switch, or you can biamp.  It's stable at 2 ohms per side (or 4 ohms bridged), which means you can run 2 4 ohm cabinets or 4 8 ohm cabinets per side.  
 
 
 The fact that it's discontinued means you buy a used one for much less money than new. You can get one delivered to you off ebay for right at 500.00.  
 
 
Power = headroom.  You would rather have too much than too little.  The 2402 is definitely not too much power.  A good rule of thumb is to have your power amp produce 1.5 times the watts your speaker is rated (anywhere between 1-2 times is ok, really). That way, nothing gets stressed too much.  Underpowering the speakers will lead to clipping the amp, and clipping will lead to blown speakers. Really, there's no such thing as too much power.  You can always turn it down.  It ain't like tube amps where they sound sucky if they're not loud (at least that's what my guitar player says).
 
Looks like the Acme is rated at 350w, and available in either 4 or 8 ohms.  That means you could get 2 4 ohm cabinets, run 1 on each side of the amp, and be giving them 700 watts each.  You could do the same with 2 8 ohm cabinets and be giving them 425 watts each.  Either way would work.  Some folks feel that 8 ohm cabinets tend to be a little tighter sounding.  See if you can compare them for yourself.  
 
If you knew you would not need more than 2 cabinets, you could spend less money and get the PLX 1602 and 2 4 ohm Acme's.  That way you would be giving each cabinet (running 1 per side) 500 watts. In a pinch you could run both cabinets off 1 side of the amp and still be giving each one 400 watts, and the other side you could use to run mains or monitors in an emergency.  Of course, that holds true for the 2402 as well.  
 
My personal reccomendation between the 2 would be the 2402.  They weigh the same, and more power gives you more options if you want to expand your rig.  
 
Other brands to look at would be Crest and Crown.  They both have amps with similar specs, but I don't have any experience with their lightweight amps, so I can't comment.  I will say this, though.  While the D-fly was in shipping I asked Mica what it sounded like.  Her response was,It sounded really good here, and gave a description, but it'll sound different through your amp... we use a hi-fi reference rig.  I told her what my rig was, (it's in my profile) and she said, Oh, ok, that's definitely a hi-fi setup.  
So it sounds like the QSC amps have the blessing of the mothership, at least.
 
Good luck,
Charles

jacko

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« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2007, 04:38:02 AM »
Jeff. I use a 2402 and i can echo what's already been said. it's a very versatile amp and if you do ever have access to enough cabinets to achieve it's full potential you can scare the bejeesus out of your guitarists, and that's a rare pleasure ;-)
 
Graeme

flaxattack

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« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2007, 05:12:23 AM »
the ones on ebay are used
no warranty
thats always a concern
i saw them at 450 which is a good price

jacko

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« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2007, 05:15:06 AM »
They're a pretty robust piece of kit. So long as it works in the first place you're getting a bargain.
 
graeme

keith_h

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« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2007, 05:35:39 AM »
Jeff,
There is always the PLX2 line if you want a full warranty. The PLX2502 is the replacement for the PLX2402. I would expect it to have a similar reliability rate. I am currently using PLX2402's to drive the sub's on my PA and use a PLX3002 for my bass rig. Haven't had problems with any of them.  
 
Keith

keith_h

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« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2007, 05:38:18 AM »
Also found this on the Acme web site for the B2.
High power handling. 350W RMS is a good starting point due to the relatively low efficiency of the cabinet. 500W RMS is ideal. The more power, the better the sound. (Within reason - It's only a 2x10!).  
 
Keith

rraymond

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« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2007, 05:46:02 AM »
Hey Flax, I'm adding to the chorus of 2402 lovers here. Mine drives an Acme Low B4 and it's earth shaking.
 
F1-X => PLX2402 => Low B2 X 2 = Cat's Pajamas
 
DireWolf will love you!
 
Reid

flaxattack

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« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2007, 05:50:33 AM »
ok i hear ya...lol
stupid q
where do you place the amp and fx=1
on top of the acme?

rraymond

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« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2007, 06:47:36 AM »
Yea, you'll want to get a rack. You'll need something deep enough to mount the rear supports for the 2402. Load it and the preamp into the rack, stack the B2s, put the rack on top and stand back!  
 
Andy has some strong thoughts on wheels and his cabinets, basically, don't do it. He likes cabinets on the floor, with amp on top for coupling purposes.  
 
(Message edited by rraymond on May 23, 2007)

bsee

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« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2007, 08:07:15 AM »
Charles, I have to disagree with some of what you say.  Yes, power is headroom, but no, I do not believe that underpowering speakers causes problems.  Problems are caused by people who don't understand their gear.  Clipping doesn't occur when you push 200 clean watts through a 500 watt cab.  It occurs when you crank the signal up beyond what the 200 watt amp can cleanly deliver in an attempt to get volume levels that require a 500-1000 watt amp.  I agree that more power is better in practice, but you can find a way to break things either way if you don't understand your gear.
 
Also, tube tone isn't about loud, it's about pushing the tubes near their limits.  In a high-power tube amp, yeah, it means loud,  Heck, a 30 watt tube amp can get pretty loud when you push it.  I have found that even solid state amps need a little volume to sound good.  They don't need to be pushed, but I like to have them up more than 10% anyway.  I've had a couple SWR pieces that just don't function well at all with the master volume set below 2.
 
With regard to the 1602 vs 2402, the technology is different between them.  If you look at the specs, you see that the 1602 is listed as class AB and the 2402 is listed as 2-step class H.  Among other things, this means that the 2402 uses less power than the 1602 to operate and should run a little cooler for the same volume level.  You'll have to ask someone else what the difference means in terms of sonic reproduction, if anything.
 
-bob

2400wattman

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« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2007, 08:12:38 AM »
Cabs on the floor sound best, you'll get more resonance that way........get down!!!!!!  
Oh yes, I've been thinking about changing over to QSC for sometime. I've been using a Crown K2 on my rig and it's not as heavy as my Macro Tech 2400(ouch!) but I still believe a little more weight loss is a good thing(no that's not a Martha Stewart quote).

crgaston

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« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2007, 08:41:05 AM »
Bob, you're totally right, of course.   Practically, more power gives more headroom, but it's the person running the gear that damages the speakers.  My point was that it's easier to do with less power than with more.  
 
The tube amp comment was just a crack on loud guitar players.  I should have put a :-), but since it was in a parenthetical aside, it would have looked like :-)), which I find disturbing.

dannobasso

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« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2007, 08:56:42 AM »
Though I prefer the sound of an older style large transformer amp, the plx's have served me very well in both bass rigs and pa applications. Anthony Jackson spoke about cab placement at a seminar I attended. He uses small cone shaped supports for his cabinets to isolate them.The hifi among you may already be acquainted with these.  Auraflex also makes a pad that isolates the cab if you don't want the bass to radiate through the stage floor. I use heavy duty wheels on my cabs for ease of transport. I lose some sound but the need for quick turnovers works for me. Most places I play have pa's with 2 or 4 subs so my rig is really a monitor of sorts. If I get an endorsement this year, I'll put the acme's up for sale here first.  
Best of luck finding your dream set up.  
 
Though they are pricey, I tried out Glockenklang at namm when Trip was demo ing them. Amazing sound.

bsee

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« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2007, 09:37:06 AM »
Pop-out wheels are great since it lets you either leave the cabs on the wheels or couple them to the floor/stage as the situation dictates.  Concrete floor will behave differently from a wooden stage, and some rooms may need the bass response while others are boomy to begin with.  Options are nice to have.