I imagine it is hard to explain how they are first when you listed them second and third, Olie. But I don't see you having anything to apoligize about -at least to me. I do respectfully submit, that unless you actually do consider yourself a stupid American, you shouldn't call yourself one. But of course, that is your right.
Major, as far as your comments go... it is true that France has had a pretty lame international history in a lot of ways since World War II. No doubt about it. The numerous examples you cited are valid, to be sure.
Of course, for whatever it is (or isn't) worth, we Americans should be grateful for the assistance the French gave us back in the days of the Revolutionary war... without that assistance, we likely wouldn't have won the war for independence, and wouldn't have been able to return the favor, and save their butts.
Just a thought. I have to agree with most of your points regarding France. (No offense intended, Pierre.)
On the other hand, I don't consider Bush a leader or our President. I don't believe he was elected by citizens of our country. There is considerable evidence that that HISTORICALLY CLOSE election was rigged; or that the results of Bush winning was rigged. I don't know that, of course... but it's NOT something that can be rationally dismissed. There IS evidence for it. I believe it is very likely that he and his cronies TOOK the Presidency. (And don't misconstrue me as being a Gore fan, I'm not. They're flip sides of the same diseased coin. They're in bed together... the Republicans and Democrats... together, they have sucessfully circumvented genuine democracy, so we don't have any real choice, and haven't had any for decades. Every election, we get to choose between heads or tails of the same corrupt party... but that's a separate important issue.)
And I consider it self-evident that he is a traitor, and a disgrace to this nation. He swore an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution. He has argueably done more damage to it than any American in the history of this country. His many monumentally serious crimes and blunders are as obvious as the sun in the sky. I don't believe what he does rationally qualifies as leadership. No, this simply wouldn't be an honest, accurate discription. What he does is something VERY, VERY, different from leadership. And it is certainly also very different from DEFENDING the Constitution. What he does is clearly the opposite. This is plain fact, like the sun in the sky. And while there are many deluded people who are either too clueless to see it and/or who have a vested interest in denying it, one can not rationally condemn someone for pointing out this obvious fact, whether they say it explicitly, or merely allude to it. He is not a man worthy of respect; he simply hasn't earned it. He HAS earned the contempt of rational and patriotic people by virtue of his extremely serious crimes against this country, and against other countries.
Of course, while I disagree with you, I respect your right to your opinion, your right to express it civilly as you have, and your efforts fighting to defend our right to do such. If only our President has such devotion.
Take care, folks, I'm not going to say anything else on this subject.
P.S. Pierre, thanks for expressing your opinion honestly. I appreciate it. I happen to appreciate your sense of humor, and your intelligence. I know that there are some here who are hostile to such thoughts, but know that there are others who are appreciative as well.
Major, I'm disapointed to see some of the obviously uncivil remarks you made (after I previously complimented you on your civility, but after seeing your additional comments prior to logging THIS post). That last comment about the Swiss laundering money for the Nazis is obviously an uncivil and deliberately malicious comment meant as an attack, and I submit you should consider editing it out. This is NOT the way to have a civil discussion, and THIS is WHY forums often are afraid of having such discussions... because some people simply are not willing to remain civil. These kinds of comments do a disservice to Americans, and are precisely why so much of the rest of the world thinks of us as stupid Americans.
We're not all like this, Pierre.
