Burn the Heretic!

[white_cloud]

It all boils down to the same old thing..everybody is different, thank god!! One mans meat is another mans poison and all that jazz. I prefer subtle tones and Im not mad for plectrum players like JJB, Lemmy or Chris squire etc..its simply a taste issue, doesnt make them bad players or anything in my eyes..I just prefer the sound of fingers plucking and thumbs thumping!! Jeff berlin is probably my fave player of all time, so melodic. He blew me away in the eighties and along with jonas helborg and stanley changed my perception of how a bass could be played. Hellborg was incredible with Mclaughlin back in the day, in fact theres an incredible version of pork pie hat with the terrible twins on youtube if you fancy a look at hellborg ripping it up on a Wal twin-neck!!

[jacko]

I taped that mclaughlin tune from tv in around 1992 when channel 4 were running alot of jazz shows. I think it was on around the same time as the seville 92 guitar legends shows although the show itself must have been recorded around 1987.  I first saw berlin in 1988 when he was playing with john mclaughlin and trilok gurtu. They did a storming version of joe frazier.
Hellborg turned up at Bass day last year..

 
Like everyone else that turns up to these events, if you take the time to chat to him, he's a really nice guy. I think he's had his teeth done since the paris video too ;-)
 
Graeme

[white_cloud]

Great pic Graeme, thanks for sharing! He has a sound all of his own thats for sure! I have heard that Jeff Berlin can be a little bit prickly and outspoken but I will let him off as he's my main man! I do think Marcus is incredible also, a very important modern player...great technique!

[bigbadbill]

Graeme, she wasn't best pleased but that wasn't the reason!  Unfortunately I was flagging and my mate Stuart was flagging even more so we bailed before Hadrien, which was a shame as I was looking forward to seeing him. I think ironically the thing we both struggled most with was the sound of 10,000 people (well it sounded like it) in the foyer all playing in the same style with the same sound, all day!!! Eventually I just got a bit of a headache! I was very impressed with Jeff B; I'd heard he could be hard work but I thought he was quite humble and very entertaining, as well as playing some great bass.  
 
I have the Hellborg/McLaughlin concert on tape at home; it's very good, although Jonas is a little undermixed. My favourite of the big names (well, non-rock big names) will always be Stanley, he just has to play one note and I'm gone. Of the newer guys I like Matt Garrison and Janek Gwizdala. Of course Richard Bona isn't bad either!

[white_cloud]

To be honest Im just amazed and blown away by the sheer ammount of incredible bass players nowadays. Back in the day you had about a dozen or so virtuoso bassists but the bar has been raised somewhat now! I guess the pioneers changed all of our expectations and inspired a new breed to push the boundrays further and further. I do however think that feel beats technique any day! Music doesnt have to be clever or technically awesome to touch you.

[bigbadbill]

I completely agree, which is why my favourite guys are the Squires and Entwistles of this world. Love guys like John McVie and Gary Thain too, a bit atypical for me. Oh, and some guy named Jamerson...

[olieoliver]

I agree with you both. Shredding or Speed slappin' is cool but some of the most memorable bass solos aren?t ?solos? at all. They?re ?bass?ically the groove the bass player is playing anyway, or the intros to tunes?i.e. I Wish, Brick House, Brown Eyed Girl and Skin Tight. These are not hard lines to play but as soon as you hear them you know the song.
 
(Stanley being the main execption here, I mean School Days has a ton of great bass leads, grooves...)

[white_cloud]

The first time I saw Stanley was on the old grey whistle test in the early eighties playing school days with George Duke..blew my mind! Truly astounding! I had just started playing bass and, having never really had been exposed to fusion, the impact it had on me was like a nuclear explosion! It IS marvelous watching astounding bass players solo but it doesnt often fit into truly great tunes as a rule! For someone like, say Entwhistle, to take quite basic (technically)who songs but stand out because of his prescence/tone, well thats REALLY something!

[David Houck]

Just for fun, I disagree!
 
John said feel beats technique any day! Music doesnt have to be clever or technically awesome to touch you.
 
Here you seem to be saying that for music to touch you, the person playing has to have feel.  Assuming that to touch you means to convey emotion, feel is then the ability to express emotional content.  It seems to me that one's abililty to use their fingers to express what's in their heart is directly related to technique, which I would suggest comes from lots of practice.  Technique, for instance, is demonstrated in the plucking hands ability to make subtle dynamic changes within a phrase that give a series of notes much more emotional content.  Technique is also demonstrated in the fingering hands application of vibrato at just the right speed to convey the intended emotion.  So, using these examples, the skillful application of dynamics and vibrato can significantly change the emotional content of a phrase.  This, to me, is technique.  To say that feels beat technique doesn't make sense to me because feel is directly related to technique.  The better your technique, the better you can play from your heart without thinking about what your fingers are doing.

[white_cloud]

I love it! You are completely right in a sense of course, but another angle to look at it is that you can also have quite magnificent chops but not have an awful lot to say from the heart in a song writing sense! I guess the point I was trying to make was kind of like this; Who wrote the songs that touched most people 1. John Lennon, or 2. Steve Vai. Now, I know its purely a matter of taste, but if you are honest, who would most folk pick? And in your opinion who had the best guitar technique?? And....I did say music doesnt HAVE TO be clever to be touch you But I didnt say it COULDNT

[dnburgess]

Maybe John should be paraphrased as feel beats clever any day - rather than feel v technique.
 
A simple line can have high technical demands (as described by Dave) in order to convey the right feeling.
 
So I think what John is saying is that a simple line played well (i.e. with feeling which implies a certain level of technique) is more emotionally satisfying than a clever line played without feel. The clever line, however, requires a high level of technique just to execute the line (by definition).  
 
So the difference between the two lines is the feel not the technique. That is, feel and technique are two different things.
 
Technique is a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite for feel. Some technique might be learned cranking out AC/DC tunes 300 nights a year. Other technique might have an academic basis. But the ability to apply any technique is based on practice.

[white_cloud]

Exactly! As David st Hubbins said in spinal tap; theres such a fine line between clever and stupid! I have just listened, by chance, to a remark you made by Weather report...man! Now there is a perfect example of feel, technique and clever all in one. Simply beautiful! God bless Jaco and Joe zawinul.

[bigbadbill]

Interestingly I feel that some of the best guitar playing technique I've ever heard comes from David Gilmour. His touch, his vibrato, the way he strikes the strings, are all, IMHO, impeccable. But as we all know, technique is a word usually used to describe speed and virtuosity; using the above example, Steve Vai would normally be considered to have great technique, whereas Gilmour, by his own admission, maybe isn't considered to have so much. But I much prefer Gilmour's playing, and his technique is a big part of his marvelous expression.