Author Topic: Favorite rack mount preamp?  (Read 334 times)

LMiwa

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Favorite rack mount preamp?
« on: December 04, 2008, 12:39:17 PM »
My trusty Trace Elliot GP12SMX is finally starting to give me problems. So I'm starting the quest for the perfect replacement!
 
I'm looking in the over $750 range, with no specific maximum. I'm looking for any and all suggestions and opinions, but please limit them to rack mount preamps only - no integrated amps, no floor / table top boxes. Also, they do not have to be available new - most of my equipment was purchased used, so a great piece of vintage gear would certainly be an option.
 
If you've owned something good or bad, I'd like to hear about it. If you've used something, tell me about the experience.
 
I'm sure there's a huge Alembic preamp user base here and I'm especially interested in hearing your comparisons to other preamps you've used.
 
Thanks,
Loch

crgaston

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Favorite rack mount preamp?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 02:08:42 PM »
Loch, both the F1X and F2B are great.  If you're not running stereo then the F1X has a built-in DI and crossover. The F1X is more hifi, and the F2B is tubier/warmer/grittier.  I played through a Trace for a while and if you like the sound, it may be tough to duplicate with anything else.  There is a lot of control with 12 bands of EQ. You probably can't get the snarling snot-nosed monster with dripping fangs sound out of either of the Alembics like you can with the Trace.  
 
One thing I'd like to add is make sure you have enough amp.  I recently switched from a QSC PLX 2402 to a 3402, and while the 2402 was great, it would occasionally run out of headroom when I'd come slamming down on a D, E, F or G on the B string.  The 3402 takes it and smiles.  These older PLX amps are relatively affordable now, too, since te PLX II line came out.  I keep seeing older Crest 7001's for even less.  That would be a beast for sure, but the weigh 50 pounds and they're huge.

terryc

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Favorite rack mount preamp?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 02:23:56 PM »
Imiwa..can you Trace unit be fixed, the GP12SMX is a great pre amp, very versatile with loads of tonal options.
Trace are producing amps again but not the pre amps anymore..If you want to keep that sound, there must be a decent engineer to sort it out

briant

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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 02:50:02 PM »
Aguilar DB680.  No longer made and well worth finding.  I absolutely love mine.  Fabulous tone, 2 fully parametric EQs, 10 stages of tubey goodness.  What more could you want? :-)

dnburgess

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Favorite rack mount preamp?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2008, 11:32:02 PM »
If cost is no object - the Hellborg Preamp by Warwick. Otherwise Alembic, Demeter or Aguilar.

2400wattman

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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2008, 11:36:54 PM »
Ditto for the Aguilar and the F1-X as I have both. Steer clear of the Ampeg stuff, it's a bit unreliable and the D.I. is useless. I have no experience with Demeter other than A/B-ing it against the DB 680. I was a bit torn though but it was the two bands of full parametric e.q. that won me over.  
I did have a GP-12 myself and do miss it but after working with rotary e.q.'s I don't see going back to a graphic for tone shaping.

jacko

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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 06:13:41 AM »
Loch.  
The GP12 is an excellent preamp so if it can be revitalised, do it. I had one in a 4x10 coombo up till 2 years ago and I still miss it. Since then, I've used an F1-X, an SVP-PRO and am currently using Eden's WP100 Navigator. Of the three, I have to say the navigator is easily the most accomplished in terms of features with a stereo effects loop, mono side chain, recording DI, stereo desk outs, stereo outputs to the power amp and tuner out. This plus the associated footswitch makes it, ergonomically, the perfect gigging amp for me. As far as tone goes, the eden takes a bit of work but the range of possible tones is only limited by your imagination. Second on my list would be Ampeg's SVP-PRO which isn't as well featured as the Eden but does at least have tuner output and an effects loop. Also, the mute and graphic equaliser sections are footswitchable. If you're after a huge, growly tone, the ampeg is where you need to be looking although it's no longer being made so you'd need to look out for old stock or second hand. Alembic's F1-X, whilst a fine pre-amp giving a wide variety of sounds just wasn't featured enough for me. There's no Tuner output and no Mute facility although it is possible to run a tuner through the effects loop. Also, I prefer to have the DI at the rear of my rig and the power switch at the front. All said, you really need to spend some time with a shortlist and see which works best for you.
 
Graeme

jacko

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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 06:21:26 AM »
Forget to say, if cost was no object I'd be looking at SWR's new Marcus Miller preamp. The specs are pretty impressive.  
Speaking of impressive, TM Stevens was using Warwick's Jonas Hellborg rig at UK Bassday and his sound was huge!
 
Graeme

glocke

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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 08:23:36 AM »
I have a demeter VTPB201S that gives a nice clean signal...great amp...very, very clean...

georgie_boy

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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 10:19:08 AM »
Sorry to be an amateur here.
I've got an Eden Navigator. I think it's just great!!
Range of sounds and controlability (?) just amazing!!
 
George

2400wattman

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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 10:11:32 PM »
Graeme, that Jonas Hellborg stuff is fantasticaly out of 99.9% players price range. I'm quite pissed about it since I wanted to try and get my hands on some of it. It better sound huge for that price tag!

bsee

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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2008, 01:26:48 AM »
As with most other questions that relate to tone shaping, there's just no right answer.  For me, it comes down to purpose and features.  Here are a few things I've used and how they fit, which I hope will paint you a picture and make you think.
 
I have had an F-1X for several years.  I love the basic tone it provides and I could use it very happily if I never had to change settings, or at least not at in-between-songs-on-stage speed.  What it has sounds very alive, but still, it doesn't have all the tones in it.  I don't really use this any more.
 
The F-1X was replaced by the Fender TBP-1 in my setup.  It has virtually the same basic feature set, but adds some nice gigging features via the footswitch.  Tonally, it isn't the Alembic.  The 2-10-2 flat setting on the Alembic sounds so much sweeter than the same thing on the Fender.  That said, something around 3-10-5 is pretty close to the Alembic's flat tone and is fine for live work when you factor in the benefits of the mid control, room EQ and drive circuit.  I would seriously look at the new SWR Marcus Miller as an improvement over the TBP-1, but it may not be as much of an upgrade as I might hope for in the SWR-is-Fender world.
 
I have done the bar band thing for about 20 years.  With a widely varied repertoire, and sometimes in a three piece band, it's nice to be able to dial in a tone that matches the tune a little better.  Someone working in a single genre or playing their own tunes may do better with a single great bass tone, but it doesn't work as well when you're really stretching the varietal limits.  For example, get a great tone for a Black Sabbath or AC/DC tune and then see what it sounds like when you play Moondance without tweaking any knobs.  Get dialed in for Moondance and then try a Rush or Who tune.  In that world, I believe the Line 6 XT or X3 products are the superior choice.  With a neutral power amp and speaker setup, I can get something that works with a couple toe taps.  It's never quite as good as the amp it's trying to emulate, but again, it's close enough to satisfy my needs for a live rig.  I use four different settings on an XT these days and we sound better for the variety of tone.  
 
Based on the above, you have to figure out what you need to do.  A great tone that is just you, a little bit of versatility for live work, or dial-a-tone flexibility to approximate a wide variety of artists?
 
-bob

jacko

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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2008, 03:11:16 AM »
Adam, Some lucky reader of the UK's Bass Guitar magazine just won himself a full Hellborg rig - pre and power amps and 1x15 and 4x10 cabinets!
 
I'm not jealous. No, really.
 
Graeme.

georgie_boy

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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2008, 04:43:10 AM »
Graeme
You've not piped up yet about your Navigator??
 
george

David Houck

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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2008, 08:49:26 AM »
Bob; that's a nice analysis.  I guess I come under the tone that is just you category.  I never use the preamp (F-2B) or the SF-2 to change tone between songs; I just use the controls on the bass and the amount of reverb and chorus or flange.