Series basses vs Signature basses?

[jazzyvee]

I am starting to think about looking for a used affordable small body series bass ( stanley style), but Id like to get a view on a few things to help me think this through properly.
 
I currently have a SC Signature deluxe bass, F-1X, SF-2, QSC Power amp and a number of mesa boogie power house cabs so I have a great sound coming from that setup that I'm completely happy with.
 
Will a series bass give me a significantly different and better quality sound than what I already have. I've listened to my bass critically alongside some of stanley clarkes music and also listened to some of Pierre's Signature bass and & Big Youth's series bass clips when they have been playing along with some clarkee stuff. No none of us sound exactly like Stanley I understand that completely,  but there is a flavour of his tone in both Pierre and Big Youths playing and that maybe just because they are playing his material that I'm familiar with.  
 
And yes I can hear the difference between the series bass and the signature basses in those instances but the difference has not been as great as the difference between an alembic and a non alembic bass.  Again if I was listening to the bass being used for bass lines not associated with alembic basses or ones I'm not familiar with would the difference in tone be as noticeable?
 
 
I guess what I'd like to know is, if you are someone who has currently or who has owned both types of instruments, is the difference in between a signature bass and a series I bass significant enough to be obvious or is it subtle or simply a tonal preference. I have to say I have not played a series bass for long enough to determine this for myself. The build quality is the same for both instruments so thats not going to be an issue.
 
Jazzyvee

[crgaston]

Jazzy, as I'm sure you know, each instrument is a law unto itself.  But I'm guessing there's not really anything sonically you could do with a Series that you couldn't do with a Signature, with the exception of running it stereo into an F2B (which is awesome) and not having to change batteries all the time.  
 
I had a Rogue with Signature electronics plus the B/T cut/boost switches and it sounded fantastic...snappy, ballsy and more Fender-ish than my Series.  But then, too it had a 3-piece maple neck with the walnut pinstripes vs the Mahogany/PH/Ebony/Maple.  The Series has more sustain and headroom and an inherent warmth, plus the versatility (especially stereo, but even mono, too) is unparallelled.
 
My opinion is...you should definitely keep shopping for an older small-body Series.  Buy it, play it, compare them, then decide which one to keep. Or keep them both!
 
:-)

[glocke]

I own a SCSD, a SI, and a SII.
 
They all sound great, they really, really do.  Its really hard for me to say that one sounds better than the other.
 
The series basses do give what to my ears sound like cleaner, hotter, more hifi type of sound than the SD does, and you also have more variety in terms of tones thanks to the series electronics, which doesnt really mean anything to me because I pretty much try and dial in the same tone no matter what bass I am playing.  
 
The series basses are also much, much more sensitive to sloppy technique, the SD is much more forgiving.
 
On room recordings where I have played both a series bass and SD bass, there is a tonal difference.  When I use my demeter/sf2/qsc rig I can almost (but not quite) make that difference go away.
 
IMO, you are not missing out on great deal by not having series electronics, but there is a difference, and once you have a series bass you will notice it.
 
Electronics aside, another thing to consider is the woods.  The type of wood makes a huge tonal difference.  My SI is maple, SII and SD are both cocobolo and there is a huge difference in sound between the maple and coco-bolo basses...
 
I think if you were to put things in terms of automobiles, the SD is a porsce or a ferrari, while a SI or a SII is a Lambroghini.
 
If you have the cash and can part with it easily, try and find a used series bass and discover these differences on your own.  If you find that you dont need what it has to offer you can easily flip it with probably no monetary loss.
 
 
Lastly, if I could only keep one of my bass it would be the SD.
I would miss what the series basses have to offer, but I am finding more and more that the SD really fits all my needs.

[mike1762]

I have a Series I, SC Signature, Spoiler, and an Orion with Epic electronics.  The Orion is set-neck and has no filter; therefore, it sounds more like a Fender than any of the others.  The Spoiler (by virtue of no pan control and only 1 filter) is not as versatile tonewise.   The Signature has the versatility of the Series I, but the tone IS different.  I don't know how to explain it other than to say there is more air... it's brighter and the harmonics seem to have more presence.  I think the difference is most pronounced when running the filters open.  As you lower the cut-off point, the Series I and Signature start sounding more alike... to my ears anyway.

[keith_h]

JV,
As I am sure you are aware I have both a Brown Bass and Series 1. Both have that Alembic sound or tone but they are noticeably different.  
 
I want to first qualify that the wood recipes in the two basses are very different. I think this has the largest effect on the over all sound of  the instruments. In general I can get the sound of my Brown Bass to be quite bright at very close to flat settings on my Navigator. With my Series I have to make some readjustments to bring out the high end zing. On the other hand the Series has a better defined low end and a fuller or rounder overall sound than the Brown Bass. I say this based on comparing them without changing the EQ on the Navigator. I also feel that the sound is more open with the Series electronics. I attribute this mostly to the single coil pickups.  
 
As far as stereo mode you can get that in the Anniversary electronics. I have not used my Series in stereo mode yet.I have used my Brown Bass. When I have tried doing this it really  opened up the sound that I hear. Well worth trying if you get the opportunity.  
 
I think my Series has the better overall sound. I do not intend to get rid of my Brown Bass and I  still use it regularly for outdoor or short notice gigs. To me both offer a better sound and have better playing characteristics than other basses I have played.  
 
I recall seeing on this board one or two folks that preferred the Signature electronics over the Series 1. Just goes to show it is all personal taste. The best thing I can suggest (repeat if you prefer) is to try and play both side by side to decide for yourself.  
 
Keith

[pierreyves]

Jazzy, don't forget the finger's player sound, attack or not, sweet or not...Big Youth and I play a lot of Stan's stuff, Big Youth play with mediator, I not. I have a nice sound on my home's Ashdown mag 300, I have a nice sound with my big rig too. In the thread on my Koa bass, I put yesterday a duet from 1982 with a series I, very warm sound. BUT with my tenor, the sound is too metallic for me. I think the reason is on the component of the C string (d'addario nickel wound xlb 032), but I'm not sure. In one or two... week I will receive my series II Koa bass. I will tell you my opinion in the first time of try.

[pierreyves]

Hi Jazzy, here is the last version of Lopsy Lu, last week; SC deluxe, vermillon body, ADGC, F1-X, Yamaha P 5000S, SWR goliath senior, Carvin LS 1523;
 
When I will have my Koa SII, I will play the same stuff with approximatively the same tone configuration.
Edit: I love this version of Lopsy Lu because my bass player is present. His Name Is Ibrahim, great bassist from Senegal.
 
(Message edited by pierreyves on May 30, 2010)

[ajdover]

I won't rehash things here, but like other posters, I've owned/still own basses with Signature, Essence, Europa, Spoiler, Series II and Epic electronics.  My LE Spyder had Anniversary electronics in it.
 
In terms of the Sig and S2 electronics/package, I'd simply say this - what you get with the Sig electronics is multiplied 10 times.  There's more warmth, versatility, balls, guts, call it what you will.  My Series II blows just about everything I've ever played in over 33 years as a bassist away.  Woods, as noted, have much to do with it, but the electronics do too.  It all depends on what one likes, is willing to pay for, etc.  
 
Bottom line:  Think of  a Series instrument as Signature electronics on steroids.
 
My two cents,
 
Alan
 
P.S.  Pierre-Yves - nice playing.  Wish I could do that kind of thing.

[LMiwa]

Hey Jazzy, here's my two cents worth...
 
When comparing the sound of a Signature Deluxe to a Series I, the wood is the #1 determining factor, not the electronics. The only way to get a comparison of the electronics would be to compare two basses with exactly the same wood construction and only the electronics being different. Otherwise, it is far more likely that any difference you are hearing is due to the difference between the woods, not the electronics.
 
I had the Rogue crgaston mentioned and have a Series II. Wish I still had both - completely different sounds due to totally different wood. So my advice would be to get a combination of woods that sounds best to you, Series I or Signature. Try as many as you can and keep the one(s) you fall in love with!
 
Just my opinion of course...
 
Loch

[serialnumber12]

put it this way.......series Basses carry '****** *****' than the rest!
 
[moderator's edit: language]
 
(Message edited by davehouck on May 31, 2010)

[toma_hawk01]

A Pitbull vs Rin Ten Ten and Lasie

[slammin]

I think my Persuader sounds pretty good until Pierre posts his sound.  Then I get depressed and start looking in the For Sale section for a Series.
 
Thanks, Pierre.  Now I need to go play with my setup some since I cannot get a Series yet.
 
You got mad skillz ans an awesome sound!
 
To Jazzyvee, SC Signature deluxe bass, F-1X, SF-2 would be my dream setup.  I will most likely seek an F-1X and or SF-2 before going to a Series, but my love of the SC body style and short scale are the main motivation for me going that route.  Ultimately I would like to get a Series II though.

[pierreyves]

hmm... I will open a thread to sale one of my SC deluxe...

[jazzyvee]

It would be good to try out a series SC style bass side by side with my signature for long enough to establish the differences properly whether subtle or major,  but at the moment the only UK dealer for alembics is not showing stock of series basses so that is not an option. I will keep my eyes open to see if any come along. Thanks for the responses, they are as expected very interesting and I'm quite fascinated at the comments about the woods being a major determining factor in sound comparison between the two types of bass. I say that mainly because I'm sure I've read comments from Mica in one of the threads in the past stating that the majority of the sound of alembics is in the neck and the body woods tend to refine that but not dominate the sound. So it is quite interesting that some of your personal experiences show a different viewpoint.
 
That certainly makes the choice more challenging when looking for a used bass since I would have less choice in wood options than with a commissioned bass and that option is not possible in the near future.  
 
Jazzyvee

[mike1762]

All of my Alembic basses have the same neck recipe (3 piece maple) except the Series I has 2 PH laminates.  All have a Mahogany core with a Maple top except for the Bocate topped Spoiler.  The Spoiler and SC Signature have a similar voice (especially when running the filters open) despite having different scale lengths and the different tops.  As I mentioned above, the Orion sounds the most like a Fender and the SI is just something else all-together.  All of these basses play VERY differently; and as such, I'm most comfortable with (in order of comfort!!!) the Spoiler (PERFECT), Orion (feels like a Fender but doesn't have the tone I associate with an Alembic), SC (I love the short scale, but it's neck heavy), and bringing up the rear: the Series I (the Standard Point design makes the 1st few positions a long reach and it is also neck heavy).  I think our comfort with a particular instrument changes our approach/technique with that instrument and that will translate to subtle or not-so-subtle changes in tone.  I've noticed that I usually pluck with the pads of my fingers; but when I play the SI, I rotate my wrist so that I'm favoring the sides of my fingers.  That takes your nails (which in my opinion gives you a sharp attack, but sounds harsh on the SI) out of the equation.  
 
With absolutely no Science to back me up, I think tone is influenced by (in order of importance):
 
1) Skills!!!
2) Strings (Rounds vs Flats vs Other)
3) Technique (Finger vs Pick vs Other)
4) Electronics (PUPs, passive vs active, etc)
5) Neck design (Through vs Set vs Bolt-on)
6) Neck woods
7) Body woods
Other stuff  
 
I didn't include your Rig... I'm not sure where I think that fits in.  I don't know... in what order would you guys put these elements???