Tech 21 Sansamp RPM & RB1

[willie]

Has anybody had any experience with either of these pre-amps. I just got one of each and I'm experimenting with recording with their direct outs plus an unaffected 1/4 output going to my existing setup which starts with an F1-X. And taking that direct line into board. Thats 3 direct and seperate lines to record at once. I also want to experiment with different ways to integrate them into my live setup. I can do that now with 1 rack with F1-X and SF-2 and DBX 160A into Crown power amp to Eden 4x10 and Custom made 1X15 using the bi-amp outputs and running amp in stereo. The output from bass goes to input of RB1. 1/4 Sansamp out to one channel of another Crown amp than to another Eden 4X10. RB1 has another DBX 160A compressor in effects loop. Unaffected 1/4 goes to rear input of RPM. Affected 1/4 out goes to the other channel of Crown amp than to another custom made 1X15. Unaffected 1/4 output of RPM to input of F1-X. Alot of options but requires two full stacks to get sound live. I was wondering if anybody had any opinions or experience with these two pieces.
Thanks
Willie

[willie]

WOW, a club made up of mostly Bass players, no offense intended to the guitar players I know are here, but apparently no Rush fans.
The purpose of me getting the Sansamp RPM & RB1 was to get a sound similar to Geddy Lee's. I know he has used these. I've always went for the clear Alembic sound but thought it would be nice be able to switch to something different once in a while.
I thought there might be someone on here who liked Geddy Lee's sound or had at least tried one or both of these out. Maybe I should have asked what people thought if I was going to have a 24 string bass built.

[David Houck]

8 x 3

[dannobasso]

Call my friend John Bednar at Tech21. I think he can help you. Great musician and expert in the tech end.

[willie]

Thanks Danno. I'm experimenting with different ways of using them . Just tried putting the RPM in effects loop of my F1-X after SF-2 and before DBX 160A. Amazing how much you can complement the sounds of an already great setup, plus have the option of turning up the Drive on RPM to get that Rush kind of sound. I don't need to really get help on how to hook things up. Got a degree in electronics. I was looking for opinions and on finding out how people are using them. But thanks for the contact. I will try to get in touch with him to discuss different options of which there are so many. What I did today allowed me to get that sound without having to use two stacks at once although I can if I ever need 3000 Watts. Another thing I like is keeping the F1-X as the heart of the system and using the RPM as more of a signal processor than a pre-amp. I can always switch back to 2 seperate stacks or the setup for 3 seperate signals direct to my 24 track without ever turning the power amps on so I don't bother the neighbors. Thanks again for the contact info, I'm sure I can come up with some questions he can help me out with. And no 24 string being built Dave, just kidding around there. My hands aren't big enough for that. 5 is as far as I go right now but wouldn't mind a 6 string Europa someday but its not in the budget right now.
Thanks
Willie

[eligilam]

Hey Willie, huge Rush fan here.  What era are you wanting to emulate, the current one, I presume?  My favorite G.Lee tone was back from the heyday of Hemispheres and Farewell to Kings.  I've almost nailed those bass tones by simply running a Rickenbacker 4003 through a SansAmp DI and then into the board.  I couldn't quite capture the same pissed-off tone with my SCSD...

[goop]

Did Geddy run in stereo ric-o-sound?

[willie]

I guess the current tone. I wasn't really a big Rush fan for along time. More of an Entwistle to Stanley Clarke to Marcus Miller to Mark King and Les Claypool, (actually met him a couple times and even got locked in a bar across from the venue they played for a while. Bought him and Herb a beer and sat and talked in a booth at the bar. Nice down to earth easy to talk to person, no big ego or attitude. But recently I've seen Rush in Rio and another concert from Germany I believe and really liked the sound of his bass. He never played a Rickenbacker, just a couple of Fender Jazz basses. I did some research and found out about him using the RPM and RB1. First time I ever bought anything just because of someone else using it, well except for getting started with Alembics in 1983 because of J.E and S.C. According to his guitar tech on TalkBass Geddy is pretty happy just playng his Jazz Basses now. So any thing anybody has to add about him and his sound and how you went about getting something close to it is quite welcome. But for just getting the Sansamps very recently I have already found some nice sounds with the little time I've had to try them out. With them added to my already existing setup is intense.
Thanks
Willie

[white_cloud]

Hi Willie, my apologies for not picking up on your original thread - Im genuinely sorry if the initial lack of response here at the club looked ignorant. Perhaps this is due to the fact that Geddy is not a fan of Alembic basses??
 
Im a big Rush fan of 30 years and my favourite era of Geddys bass tone was his Wal Custom ( I owned one back in the late eighties - awesome axe! ) I also greatly admired the tone Geddy achieved with his Rick 4001 in the early years (check out the exit stage left  live concert footage - sublime high end bass tone! )
 
Geddy is a player with no fear of experimentation - during the early / mid eighties Rush were highly experimental and this can be perfectly illustrated by Geddys use of the Steinberger xl2 bass on grace under pressure  (killer bass tone once again) and the susequent grace under pressure live concert footage readily available on youtube etc!
 
Geddy was a big fan of Ampeg amps in the early days, switching to Gallien Krueger then Trace Elliot laterlly before going direct to the board through the Sansamp pre-amp. Indeed the Sansamp is probably a bigger contributing factor to Geddys sound than the 72 Jazz bass (non original neck now!) he picked up in a pawn shop in the late 70s.
 
The Sansamp is used by many many high level bassists - particularly rock players - as it is very adept at adding a real grit to the overall tone.
 
If you want the recent tone of mr Lee the Sansamp is essential!
 
John.

[kenbass4]

Willie,
 
I too am a huge Rush fan, but I run through an old school Ampeg SVT rig, so I didn't really have anything helpful to contribute about running direct sans amp (no pun intended). With any one of my Alembics, or my 4001, I can eek out the Geddy tones up until about GUP's sound. but you have to remember that part of Geddy's sound (in fact most of it) is in his technique. From what I've read, he tends to strike the strings pretty hard with his right hand, which helps to contribute that snarly bite that he gets.
 
Good luck in your quest.
 
Ken (TEO)

[willie]

John and Ken
Thanks for the responses. Yes it did seem at first that I wasn't getting any responses. Thats happened a couple times and I wondered if I'm just asking the wrong questions or what. I read alot of other peoples posts and I think there are some really nice people on this site who are also very smart about Bass subjects and are willing to help people who have questions.
I did read from his tech that there is not much chance of him using the Wal too much.
Its really surprising he doesn't use backline amps on stage. Although the clothes driers are really funny. I really like the sound of the Sansamp RPM in my effects loop of my Alembic based rig. But I also want to do some more experimenting with it and the RB1 together in my other stack. It nice right now because I can have my usual sound and just hit the active switch on the Sansamp to switch to it with that added in. Ken, back in the eighties I was playing an Alembic Spoiler/Exploiter through a Music Man HD-150 tube head and a cabinet with 2 JBL's and got a great sound similar to Geddy's sound just by hitting the strings really hard with 3 fingers on my right hand. I used to be surprised sometimes on stage, (when I wasn't watching the girls dance), about how much the bass was rocking back and forth from my right hand hitting the strings so hard. And not just from my fingers but from the movement of my whole forearm. We used to do a ZZ Top show and thats something I picked up from Dusty Hill seeing him live and trying to get that sound live. He didn't just use his fingers to stike the strings hard but his arm too so that as the fingers approached the string to hit it, it already had some momentum and energy from his forearm moving. I'm not playing live in a band right now so don't get to play that hard anymore but I'll have to try that harder playing style again.
Thanks for the responses and help.
Willie

[willie]

John
I've been checking videos on youtube of Rush live. Haven't found one of him playing the Wal. Do you know of any? I would like to hear how that sounded. I like the sound of his Rickenbacker, Jazz Bass and the Steinberger even though I never liked the look of them. I think a bass doesn't look balanced without a peghead and it seems like you would loose some sustain without it. Plus the little body doesn't look too good either. But it sounded good.  
Its a shame it took too long for me to catch on and appreciate Mr lee. Unfortunately I continued playing with friends who were guitar players  not interested in the bass being up front in the mix or treading on their turf by playing any kind of lead type bass or having a bright or cut through the mix sound. I should have looked for musicians who had a more open mind to how a bass can sound. I will definiely be picking up some DVD's of Rush live and start learning to play their music. Let me know if you know of any with the Wal bass.
I was reluctant to listening to Primus when I was first was told about them because I had heard it was like headbanger music. Than I saw them open up for U2 and that changed everything. Now I've seen them at least 10 times live, met them and got autographs a couple of times. Went on to learn to play alot of their music which is a little more challenging than normal rock songs.
Lesson: Always keep an open mind to different types of music

[white_cloud]

Sure thing Willie,
 
Type in Rush Big Money on youtube and you will be directed to one of many clips from the excellent live dvd show of hands on which Geddy uses the Wal bass exclusively.
 
The Wal bass was a phenomenon here in the UK before players like Geddy picked up on it (British producer Peter Collins introduced Geddy to the Wal bass .)  The neck on Wal basses could be an acquired taste (being quite substantial)but many loved it (Mick Karn, Justin Chancellor, Percy Jones, John Entwhistle and Paul McCartney etc )  It hard a clever and very direct control layout that could access a huge variety of tones very easily and quickly. It was probably the next best thing to a Series bass at the time soundwise and more user friendly! Listen to the Rush lp power windows this is probably the best example of a Wal bass tone available on ANY release!
 
Oh, and also check out the Rush track marathon on youtube from the show of hands live dvd - Geddy uses the Wal bass to great effect with a stuttered style of fingerplaying that his close friend Jeff Berlin taught him!
 
Enjoy.
 
John.
 
(Message edited by white cloud on April 03, 2009)

[eligilam]

I love that stuttering trick...I use it quite a bit.  I honed that technique after about 4000 plays of Territories off of Power Windows.  (the Show of Hands version is an even better showcase for that technique....)

[willie]

Thanks John
I've been checking out different songs from the Show of Hands DVD. The Wal definitely has a different sound than when he played a Rick or Jazz. I've never played a Wal myself. I don't recall seeing one in a music store to get to check it out. Maybe it was just that I was so happy with Alembics I wasn't paying enough attention to others. Although I have had 2 Music Man's, (my Sabre I got in 79 or 80 was my first good bass), and 2 Jazz basses, 1 fretted and 1 fretless. I traded my Stingray 5 recently for a Roscoe Century Signature 5 with a 35 scale which I really am starting to like.
Do you know if Geddy ever tried an Alembic and if so why doesn't he use them? Seems like it would be a good match since he has such a distinct up front bass tone that doesn't get lost in the mix even live which can't be said for alot of other basses that you mostly just feel at concerts but sound muudy and lost in the mix.
Thanks for the video tips, I'm becoming a bigger Rush fan everyday.
Willie