Author Topic: Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X  (Read 872 times)

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2010, 08:29:00 PM »
Bassman10096 ,  Both of your projects look like you really put your heart into it   Very nice.   I am under the impression that your electronics  remained passive?

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2010, 10:20:41 PM »
Back in the Day  Darlington Emitter Follower circuits were wired directly to the Guild/Hagstrom pickups. I believe a Darlington connected monolithic circuit such as an  RCA CA3018 was effectively used . Please correct me if I am wrong. An updated  circuit unit utilising FET technology can be adapted in the form of an  ALEMBIC  BLASTER.
                My project EB-3 experiments will most likely lean to this direction with ALEMBIC BLASTERS.

spose

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 356
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2010, 08:38:41 AM »
FLATS!!!!!!!!

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2010, 09:05:05 AM »
Pyramid Gold Flat Wound  Strings to be concise ; No .640 Short scale or No.640/1  Long scale

pasewark

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 267
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2010, 01:29:07 PM »
I'm using Thomastik Flats on the Guild right now. I'll try the pyramids next time I need new strings.

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2010, 01:52:13 PM »
I have the Pyramid Gold flats on my remaining Alembic modified Guild Starfire  and my  Alembic Series II .

rusty_the_scoob

  • club
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2010, 12:48:15 PM »
I'm winning the EB3 race! Neener-neener! :D
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/danfcrea/sets/72157616140553831/
 
My dad is refinishing a 1969 EB0 and modifiying it to Phil's specs as we speak.   It was a basket-case I bought off Ebay with the finish and all hardware stripped, so I'm not modding a real collectible.  If anyone knows how to reach Bob Thomas (if he's alive), I'd love to ask him a few questions about his paint job.  (Edwin's awesome pic has been very helpful!  But we aren't sure if it's airbrushed, stenciled, hand-painted, or what...)
 
I'm very nearly positive that Phil's bass started out as an EB3 not an EB0 - they were both short scale in the 60's, identical in every way except that the EB3 had the bridge pickup, two extra knobs, a 5-ply pickguard instead of 3-ply, and generally an inlaid Gibson logo instead of a decal.   I believe that Phil & crew bought the EB3 mostly to stick the Starfire's Hagstrom pickups into while they fit all the prototype Alembic electronics into the Starfire's bigger body.
 
Incidentally, these basses fit perfectly into stock SG cases!  They're an inch too long for most electric guitar cases though.
 
Phil did play with his fingers for a year or two around this time.  You can see it in the Festival Express video among others.  By '72 or so he was back to almost exclusively picking.
 
My research confirms the Darlington Pair Emitter-Follower theory, one per pickup.  I'm having those built when the bass is ready.
 
Bassman - who built the bridge on your M-85?  I believe the bridge on Phil's was just the stock 1969 Gibson ever-tilt bridge with an added tailpiece but those stock bridges are pretty crappy and hard to come by.  Your bridge is exactly what I want to use.

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2010, 01:05:39 PM »
My guess is handpainted. I seem to remember something about that in an interview years and years ago.

pasewark

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 267
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2010, 01:29:37 PM »
Very Cool Rusty. Please keep us updated on the progress of the instrument. May I ask how much you paid for the body? I saw one on EBay recently. The guy was asking $900 which I thought was too much.
 
Don
 
p.s. - According to Bear's website, Bob Thomas passed away in 1993.

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2010, 01:56:51 PM »
rusty the scoob,  How are you ?   lol ----       I am not a contender in this race,  but it is nice to hear from you regarding your project.
I am currently waiting for the delivery of new old stock RCA CA3018 's . I found some online since my last post in this thread. I bought a lot of 5 . Next I will be researching to find schematics and will be doing some old fashion  breadboarding .I will also be experimenting and adapting  Alembic blasters in comparison.  
  I am not trying to recreate a clone look alike instrument to the one that Mr. Lesh had , I am more after the timbral aspects , however I will be adding some of my own touch's as well.    
          Sonic regards

rusty_the_scoob

  • club
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2010, 02:01:21 PM »
The bass was around $550 shipped IIRC.  I'll have around 3x that into it by the time I'm done but I'm going first class all the way.  I'll definitely let you all know!  It's been a very long road already.
 
Thanks for the news about Bob.  My mom and uncle seem to think it was airbrushed based on the Edwin pic, but hand painted sure makes more sense to me...   I see hippies sitting around with paints and brushes rather than compressors and airguns... OTOH these were some VERY industrious hippies...
 
Very cool, Sonicus!  I can't wait to hear how they turn out!  I have Waldo of Waldo Electronics lined up to build mine... despite my dad being an EE I don't have the patience for circuit design.  His plans are to use a newer Darlington Pair (something by Motorola IIRC?)rather than the original NOS ones that you're using - or possibly even build both and compare the sound.  So I'll be very interested in your progress!
 
(Message edited by Rusty_the_Scoob on July 06, 2010)

pasewark

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 267
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2010, 02:09:06 PM »
Well as far as Hippies and airbrush are concerned, a lot of the Mouse/Kelley art employed airbrush, but I'm betting Bob Thomas was all hand painted.

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2010, 02:22:51 PM »
Rusty_ cool ! _____ I am a slow snail  , I am also intrigued that you are are so enthusiastic about this  . Your project will be awesome when finished, It will be even more exciting for you to play it at a gig !

rusty_the_scoob

  • club
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2010, 06:57:47 AM »
My main gigging bass is already a Coco Bolo, Mahogany, Maple and Purpleheart body that my dad built with a Warmoth neck, all built to my own design.      Playing the Dead is a dream come true, need to make sure my sound delivers.
 
(Message edited by Rusty_the_Scoob on July 07, 2010)

cozmik_cowboy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7339
Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2010, 08:40:37 AM »
Rusty, Blair jackson says it was an EB-0 (Grateful Dead Gear, p. 88), & if you check the 2nd page of pictures in Phil's Searching For The Sound, bottom shot, you can clearly see the pre-mod bass with one p/up.  
I eagerly await a report on your finished instrument!
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter