Author Topic: Getting a 70's era Phil Lesh tone from an F-1X (Read 844 times)

connor · « **on:** June 26, 2010, 06:44:34 PM »

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with an F-1X/SF-2 rig and getting the classic Phil Lesh tone from the 70's. I know he used an F-2B, but I'm now trying to avoid making a new purchase (money's suddenly an issue

)

Any help would be appreciated greatly!

Connor

crgaston · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2010, 03:10:23 PM »

Something I've been playing with here lately on my F1-X is 0-10-2 or 0-10-0 for the mass, mid and treble knobs. It's producing a thick, defined tone with plenty of bottom, and with my neck filter rolled down a good bit and a pick, quite Philish indeed. Neck p/u soloed or just a hint of bridge. No superfilter required. But everyone is diferent. Keep playing with things and you'll find out what works. One thing you must grasp is that the eq controls of the Alembic preamps are not intuitive. At all. Well, for small changes maybe. But who would think 0-10-0 would sound the way it does? Not me.

Lots of stuff in the Must Read section, including...

http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/26422.html?1144370485

crgaston · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2010, 03:15:56 PM »

double tap

whoops.

(Message edited by crgaston on June 30, 2010)

pasewark · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2010, 09:44:17 AM »

I've always been interested in the early 70s Phil Tone myself. The definitive Phil sound for me was the April 71 Fillmore East shows.

I'm using a '96 Guild Starfire reissue with Hammon Dark Stars, running through a Mesa Boogie Carbine 6 with a Mesa 4x10 cabinet. I have an Alembic SF-2 in the effects loop and I can get pretty close. I use low pass in the first filter and high pass in the second filter. I'm still experimenting and the settings change with the room I'm playing.

What I'm REALLY interested is collecting data on Phil's Alembic modified Gibson EB-3 (30.5 or 34 scale?). Looking at photos it looks like it has Guild Pickups, but I can't tell of they're the Hagstoms or Guild versions. It also looks like this bass has an Alembic bridge and tail piece. It runs a 5 pin cable so the electronics are modded by Alembic, and I would like to know what the electronics are in the bass exactly. Plus Phil was playing this bass through a Fender Dual Showman, so that will affect the sound.

I want to do a ground up recreation of this bass including the nice paint on the bass. I understand that the bass was painted by Bob Thomas who also did the painting on the cover of Live Dead album.

Maybe someday!

crgaston · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2010, 05:41:18 PM »

One thing about Phil's tone from the earlier years that I've noticed is that it often changes drastically between songs at a show, or even between different parts of a song. He's obviously switching between pickup balance, filter settings and where he plucks the string frequently. So when someone is asking about recreating it, it's nearly impossible to give good advice unless you know exactly which sound the questioner is trying to re-create.

That said, he's definitely my biggest single influence outside of the people I play with. I've got a Modulus, a Starfire with Dark Stars, and an Alembic and play through either an F1X or F2B and sometimes a Superfilter so, yeah... I'm a Phil nut

Great pics and a worthy goal, there, Donald!

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2010, 08:35:22 PM »

Donald, it actually started life as an EB-0 (short scale), & was modded with (among other things) Hagstrom p/ups. If you're really interested in details on Phil's (or any of their) rigs, I highly recommend Blair Jackson's Grateful Dead Gear. Based on what your rig and the fact that you're pretty close, may I suggest that what you need to nail it could well be 15 and/or 18 speakers?
And those are the 2 best shots I've seen of that bass - thanks (& Mr. Thomas also designed the Alembic logo, IIRC).

Peter

hieronymous · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2010, 08:38:50 PM »

Wow - I usually think of Phil as a pick player, but he's playing with his fingers in those pictures...

edwin · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2010, 09:44:51 PM »

As far as the speakers go, Phil was using Sunn 2x15 cabs with JBLs. You can find them out there every now and then. They were deeper and better constructed than the Showman cabinets.

The picture on the right was something I found on a friend's refrigerator. It was an old 11x14 that his room mate had bought at a show decades ago and by the time I saw it, it was in pretty bad shape, with crinkles and maple syrup adorning it. I scanned it and spent a long time touching it up and it came out pretty good! I also spent a lot of time trying to find S.A. Diesel. When Blair was doing his book, he asked me if I had any information on this bass and I told him what I knew and sent him a scan of this pic. We decided that if Mr. (or probably monsieur) Diesel ever surfaces, he could be rewarded with a copy of the book. I am guessing that this picture was taken at the Chateau show in 1971 when they went over to play a festival in France that didn't happen. The ensuing party was apparently awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhYpAjHdMEE

Edwin

elwoodblue · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2010, 11:02:01 PM »

Cool videos...err..films : )
thanks!

pasewark · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2010, 09:01:11 AM »

Great info folks, thanks. Edwin, great job on the Phil pic. I'm really interested in photos of the band from the 70-71 period. I found a used copy of Grateful Dead Gear on ABE Books for $12. Can't wait to see that. At some point I'm going to add a 15 to my setup as soon as I start playing rooms that warrant a second cabinet! !

sonicus · « **Reply #10 on:** July 01, 2010, 09:38:28 AM »

I too have put much study into the various chronological phases of Mr. Lesh's tone I started back in the 1970's with a variety of different gear combinations and instruments. I have had a few modified Guild Starfires( there are pictures on this site) that reflect my endeavours .

In my opinion the timbral aspects of the sound that he had during the Alembic/ EB-3 phase were by far the most visceral to my experience_ I really like that aspect totally tear ass sound LOL_______(does that sound real enough ?).

I am also interested in a project that will result in customising an EB-3 in a similar way .At this time I am collecting the parts and am in a design phase , The Bass that will be used as the experimental specimen however is of the long scale variety.

Cool link Edwin .

Sonic Regards

pasewark · « **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2010, 10:35:10 AM »

Thats sounds great Edwin, would you post pics of the build? Where are you getting parts? I noticed Warmouth sells EB0 bodies. I thought of buying an Epiphone EB0 reissue and starting from there. Everything I've read about the Epis are that the construction is very good.

sonicus · « **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2010, 10:43:28 AM »

Edwin ? lol _

pace · « **Reply #13 on:** July 01, 2010, 03:12:39 PM »

Back in '92 I picked up a '67 EB-0 for $150 at a local pawnshop which became my main bass for about a decade. The Cherry finish had been stripped, and the original ceramic soapbar had been swapped out for a Guild humbucker..... I can't help but wonder the who/what/when/where/whys about this bass, and if in fact the previous owner was trying to get close to Phil's spec (but without the plethora of information we have today).

Around the same time I picked up a near mint Kustom 200 w/ matching 2-15 cab..... I'd yet to hear the skull & roses album, but I felt that I was pretty close at that time to nailing the '69-'70 sounds~ especially the rolled-off milky content on American Beauty....

This may sound crazy, but I'd really like to find an old Peavey T-40 to throw some Dark-Stars in..... There are some super rare ones out there w/ mahogany bodies, and if I could swap the neck w/ a later era Foundation fretless neck, i'd have the ideal beater-bass!...

bassman10096 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 01, 2010, 08:03:10 PM »

I refurb'd and refinned an '68 EBO, added a pair of Dark Stars and wound up with a fun bass that could do some of what Phil's EBO could do.

Fun bass, but it felt a little lightweight for my taste. I could never shake the feeling that more mass would have improved the sound. Ultimately, I sold this one to finance my Brown Bass. But I never really abandoned the project - I found a distressed Guild M-85, stripped and refinned it, replaced the humbuckers with Dark Stars, and found a machinist who built an Alembic-inspired (the specs are actually quite different from the actual Alembic bridges) brass bridge with sustain block and got much closer to Phil's sound. This one's a keeper and a lot of fun to play out with from time to time. Keep the dream alive, Pasewark!