Too much tone???

[white_cloud]

I have been to many Yes shows and admitedly Chris Squire does change basses often (not as often as Steve Howe changes guitars though!)  
 
BUT
 
To me, in those large venues, at very high volumes it always struck me that the bass sound doesnt really actually change all that much! In fact I have, like all of us here seen many of the great bassists of our time live in large venues and to be honest it hasnt mattered much what bass they were playing.
 
And lets face it Chris is a bit of a poser (quite rightly so!)
 
I feel that high end basses like Alembic really come into their own in the studio in a practical and effective way more so than in large venues.  
 
John.

[cozmik_cowboy]

...all of us here seen many of the great bassists of our time live in large venues and to be honest it hasnt mattered much what bass they were playing
 
Pardon my beg to differment, John, but I can definitely say that Phil Lesh's tone varied vastly between the osage orange Alembic, the Irwin and the Modulases (Moduli?) (and, to my ear, each change was not just a change, but a signifigant step down in tone.  Phil, it would seem, disagrees)
Got to agree on Squire, though - the one time I saw them, he switched constantly & I heard no change; I think it was mostly just for the spectacle of the basses coming up out of the floor.  
 
Peter

[sonicus]

I remember back in the 1970's the LIVE SOUND of  Jack Casady's  
ALEMBIC # 1   !!!!!!!!!!!!    Such a sound !! I saw many live shows where he played that Bass . Tone in Technicolor !!!!!!!  A movie for your ears!!!!!

[white_cloud]

Cozmic of course you can beg to be different - its only my opinion and every player here will have their own thoughts!!!
 
I am just calling it by my own personal experiences. I generally have a great ear for tone and nuances. Its easy to appreciate fine instruments when recording etc but in large venues at high volumes it can be much harder to pick out the finest basses finer details imho.
 
I have extensively played Alembic, Wal, Vigier, Status, Jaydee etc etc etc  but at high volume I often thought their finer details tonally were wasted live at high volume out front!  
 
Thats why I now just employ the here it is - come and get it Precision!!!
 
John.

[lbpesq]

As a non-bass player who is very familiar with Phil Lesh's live tone over an almost 40 year period, I can definitely hear a difference in tone between his different basses, even at very high sound levels.  His Modulus basses were very bassy.  It was almost as if you felt the bass, rather than heard the bass.  I much prefer his Alembics where the bass notes were clear and distinct.  I like the current Ritter's tone better than the Modulii  but it's no Alembic.
 
Bill, tgo

[sonicus]

Yes Bill I agree!  
 I like Phil's  Alembic and Alembic Modified Bass's best.

[benson_murrensun]

I know I'm going to really step in it big time with this musing:
 
I have a Ritter, a Modulus, and an Alembic. I wonder how many of us could pick out the Alembic in a blindfold test of listening to the same tune played three times exactly the same, but on the different basses.
 
I bet that most of us would hear a difference between them, but could we pick out the Alembic from the rest?
 
Comments?

[jet_powers]

could we pick out the Alembic from the rest?
 
Now that would make an interesting experiment!!!
 
JP

[olieoliver]

I'm with you 100% Bill.  
 
A while back I went to see one of our Alembic brothers play. The non-Alembic bass he played most of the night sounded real good. Of course he is a real good player too. But when he played his Series 2 for a few tunes it was like night and day. Still had an awesome bottom end, fat and punchie, but you hear every note. Very crisp, clean and cut through the mix incredibly.
 
It's like driving a new Camaro, you think WOW this is great, then you get to drive a Ferarri and ....well ya know....
 
OO

[jos]

In my opinion the Alembic sound is really special and is technically on another level than most of the other basses on the market today (mostly series basses) but also other Alembics.  
The thing is that Alembics can be used in so many different ways. If you play an Alembic with an amplifier that cannot produce high frequencies and the speakers are limited with producing the low end then Alembic will sound good but sounds a bit like a Fender. It does not sound like night and day comparing to other basses. For me Alembic gives possibilities, it can sound like any bass but at its best its unbeaten.  
 
I have an experience from last week when a friend wanted to listen to my Alembic Series bass. I took my bass to his place he did have an old Hartke amp and Hartke speakers to test the stuff with. After testing he told me its good but not that different from his bass. He thought the difference would have been bigger. I took my stuff from the car F-1X with power amp and great speakers the sound suddenly cleared up and sounded BIG like a house!! He was just with his mouth open for an hour or so??.  
 
Now we have to remember do we need all this? I do agree that many of the gigs we all do; do not necessarily require all the great features that an Alembic has. Many times it?s simpler and safer to use something else that is good as well, like Fenders or what I use sometimes is my Fodera (simple to use and sounds good too) or something else.
If you want to sound like Jaco, and nothing else, you will probably not need an Alembic for that. Of course you can get that sound from the Alembics too or at least very close but that kind of sound do not require Alembic.
I have experiences from both rehearsals and studio when other musicians are really blown away by the sound of Alembic. I have to admit that sometimes it can be the opposite as well like people get scared when they see an Alembic they want to see a regular bass. (This is mostly psychological but we do not have the time to argue and the guy who pays is the one we have to listen to)
When Stanley Clarke uses something else than Alembic he does not sound they way we want him to sound and he knows that too?.
Alex Blake a great bass player who did use Alembic for many years in the -70\s and -80\s lost his sound completely when he changed to Ibanez. I did see him play with Manhattan Transfer in the early -80\s and he did have one of the greatest bass sounds at that time (Alembic Series I)
Jimmy Johnson sounds soo good with the Alembic his sound is huge??.

[sonicus]

Jos
 
              I enjoyed reading your posting.

[white_cloud]

I agree with one thing for sure - the Series sound is on a different planet from most things and most certainly on a different level from all other Alembic basses!
 
Thats the thing, perhaps we should be more specific when talking about topics like this...we should really state that Series Alembics sound the best and not just say Alembics are best
 
Have to agree with Jimmy Johnsons sound - incredible tone!
 
John.

[olieoliver]

Oh I don't know John, while I agree that the Series are on a different level than Alembics other instruments, (I hear they make guitars too, eh Bill) their non-Series instruments are IMHO on a different level than other makes. My MK basses, even the one with Europa eletronics, sound SO much better than my other basses. And they play so well.  
Let's not forget the feel and playability either. I have owned and still have some other brands, while they are good they just don't cut it for me anymore.  
And for how they feel and play is the most important. As Jos said, the instruments sound will be affected greatly by what it's played through. I can get a good sound out of any bass, granted not as good as my Alembics, BUT I can't make any of my basses feel as good as my Alembics.  
 
OO

[jet_powers]

When I bought my Rogue 5 the shop employee was incredulous when I told him I didn't want to plug it in. It's an Alembic, I know it will sound good, but how does it feel? Good enough to take it home!
 
JP