Author Topic: Too much tone??? (Read 480 times)

terryc · « **on:** June 09, 2009, 07:05:54 AM »

Okay everyone, along with my Signature bass with two filters and Q switches, I own a Roland Cube with amp modeller selectors, then I have Zoom B1U with more amp modellers and now I have aquired a Beringher Amp Modeller/V tone stomp box.
Some of you richer people have series I & II basses SF-2's and great amps SO
Do you think we have too much tonal options, I mean would we ever use every concievable option at a gig or maybe in a life time??
Variety is the spice of life but too many cooks spoil the broth if you all get my drift.
Which brings me to the next part..do you change your setting to suit the song when you are playing live..that is the reason why I got sacked from the 70's party band as according to the singer..I keep changing the sound..which in the end I just left it alone

gtrguy · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:57:55 AM »

My Fender Precision just has a volume and tone control. Has one great sound. I have actually been giging with it lately. It's kinda fun to go back to the basics sometimes. I use an old SWR 400
with it, which has lots of EQ settings. Maybe that's coming full circle?

The series instruments would make me nervous onstage at the places I play at, though others say life is too short not to.

Bye,
Dave

bassilisk · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:02:52 AM »

I play a varied arsenal of basses and each has its own character. I try to optimize for the best sound I can get out of each and leave it alone for the night. Of course, this is all based on the sound I have in my head for what I want a bass to sound like. I consider it a baseline and work towards it within the capabilities of the instrument and my amp/speaker. For example, I don't like extreme settings - I like a solid tone that supports the bottom (after all, I am the bass player) with enough definition to let any of my forays be heard clearly. I don't tap or slap so that tonal aspect isn't addressed. Those styles have special needs that switching between them requires.

Having tonal options is a wonderful thing. That doesn't mean they're all good or that you should use them all. It's like someone giving you a closetful of suits in every color. Would you really want to wear the purple one? Maybe you would - it's there if you do. What you get is the palette that lets you choose the ones that suit you best. All that versatility means the gear will allow a broad swath of players and styles to be able to find what they want. I mean, wouldn't it be great if you could buy one bass/amp/speaker that did everything?

I don't think so - I'm too much of a gear head!

jazzyvee · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:10:22 AM »

Too many cooks only spoil the broth only if you let them all in the kitchen to cook the same recipe at the same time.... hehehe

You do raise a good point there Terry. There are so many Toys that we can play with, to give us a Better sound but in reality we probably only need to use a fraction of the sound scope available to us.

I use pretty basic technology in my signal line, valve amps work for me on both guitar and bass and I tend to avoid digital effects and modelling stuff as to my ears they remove far too much of the natural sound of an instrument that i have bought specifically for it's sound. I did in a moment of personal stupidity buy a Line 6 Pro XT Live modelling pedal and have hated it ever since. But if that's what someone wants from me on a session guitar gig then I use it. For bass it's always clean.

i do make tonal changes to suit the song and have found that on the gigs that I use my Europa bass, The tracks are usually fairly similar in the tone so I don't really have to change sound much. However when I have been doing gigs with my SC Signature bass, I tend to be playing Clarkee tracks where the tone can change change quite dramatically during the progress of a song and that variety in bass tone can really lift the sound of the track.

Sad news about your band sacking you. It happened to me recently too, although in my defence, no-one has ever complained about my tone, my playing yes hahahaha.

I guess we will both have to find bands that appreciate a wider that normal sound spectrum.

Jazzyvee

terryc · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:57:44 PM »

jazzyvee..well the songs were not my thing at all but the money was great. He said he wanted the same tone a sort of trebly no bottom end 'cos he said it annoyed him(everything and I mean everything went thru' the PA, even in a small pub for gods sake!)
So when you play 'Moaney Moaney' by Billy Idol which has a chunky tone, do use the same tone for 'Crazy Little Thing Call Loved' which to me necessitates a low rock'n'roll tone..my ears say yes but who am I to say as I have been sacked.
To everyone else..we do have a myriad of gear to choose from which has its own merits and sounds and I agree with bassilisk, it would be great that one bass/amp/speaker did it all.
Personally I love playing around with different settings, trouble is I never write them down and forget how I got there.

bassilisk · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:31:54 PM »

terryc - unfortunately for you there was an AH driving the bus. I'm dealing with one right now, but he leaves me alone and I can do as I please.

Don't let it get you down - trust your instincts and your ears. You will be much better served and happier in the long run.

sonicus · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:52:37 PM »

Hi, terryc
I feel empathy in your regard because I have been there as well. I remember all the flak that I used to get from band leaders. One of them for 14 years. The next one will be better.Perhaps you will be the band leader !

terryc · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:57:04 PM »

bassilisk..definitely an AH, I really did not like the music they played, it was embarrasing at times but the money was so good, I should have left months ago but it was easy money...I am ashamed that allowed myself to play so much crap..they say there is no bad music but this was bad in my opinion.
I really got paranoid about what sound he wanted and one gig I just turned up with my bass and my Zoom unit to DI into the desk, you could still hear the crap sound he was producing and get this, the drummer put ear plugs in!
Sonicus..I have thought about getting a band together but it is so much hard work but I know if you don't put the effort in you don't get the rewards SO maybe I might consider this option at the end of the month.
Thanks for all your support but lets get back to the 'Too Much Tone' thread, I wonder if one of us here will ever find the Holy Grail of tone??

57basstra · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2009, 06:51:08 PM »

terryc, interesting questions.

I have a good friend who is an excellent guitar player and he does not like a lot of options. He says he gets his sound/tone from the pickups, new strings, tube amp and guitar(s). He says less is more.

Intriguing topic.

jos · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2009, 12:06:46 AM »

Alembic basses have so many different great useful sounds but during a show I almost never change the sound settings, in studio yes, but live no. All the different sounds I will do with my fingers. (I play a Series I and Series II bass)
I approach the instrument like an acoustic instrument and adjust the sound with my fingers. The sound changes dramatically when moving right hand from bridge position to close to the neck position. Also the use of dynamics like how hard you play changes the sound quite much. The softer you play the more low end you have but articulation is a bit better when playing harder?.I play ballads softer and so on?..
In general I think by not changing the sound settings too much during the show you will sound much more solid and the guy behind the mixer desk is a happier guy too not to mention the guys in the band.
Stanley Clarke changes his sound all the time during a show and it sounds great. But he approaches the instrument more like a lead bass and plays on the top of the band all the time plus it?s a tenor bass that he is using 90% of the time.
My recommendation is that keep it simple.

sonicus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2009, 01:52:57 AM »

Over the years I have gone through various phases where I have lugged around a large rack of various rack mount amplifiers ,signal processing gear such as 2 parametric EQ's compressor, flanger/ phaser/ chorus / noise gate /channel switching foot switch. with a stack of Alembic cabinets and more ___ And then there were years where I insisted on playing through just an 18 inch speaker in a huge refrigerator sized folded horn cabinet with just a simple minimalist amplifier and a Fender bass. And recently small easy to carry gear. ______Ultimately,
much of our sound really does come from our hands. Playing really close to the bridge versus the neck position and all the other variables involved. Our Alembic instruments are even more accurate of what our hands are really doing, our strengths shine and our weakness's are revealed more so. The Bottom line is that ______________________
Our Alembics don't have too much tone because after all they are in our hands.What I say here is old news we all know this .

terryc · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2009, 02:05:22 AM »

Sonicus..yep been there with the big gear, although the Roland is only 100W I built a 12 extension speaker so it is a mini stack, in the last band we only used the PA for vocals and they all liked my tone changes for the variety of songs we did. 60's & Motown required that lovely P bass thump, 70's required the disco bass & mid sound, 80's the EQ smiley face sound so I loved the tone changes but as jos says going thru' the PA you are at the mercy of the soundman regardless what you do.
Anyway the salsa band I am in as a second band(sorry I forgot to mention that earlier) is open to all sorts of tone as we incorporate some jazz numbers too.
I think I will put my energy into this band, the keys & trumpet player are great players but a little gig naive.

sonicus · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2009, 02:54:57 AM »

Hi teryc,
I have always been unhappy with the Bass through the PA
Scenario as well and had that same experience . it was dreadful ! I have been playing more Jazz /latin as well again. For many of them I have been using the little GALLIEN-KRUGER MB150E I have 2 of them. With the ALEMBIC BASS's you have to push in the -10db input pad as not to overload the input. Good sound for a tiny little box at low volume. Also a good little recording amp . I still have kept quite a bit of my large equipment just incase I have to make a big rumble in the future.

benson_murrensun · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:34:19 AM »

I think that one of the things that defines the quality of a bass is how well it responds to changes in the player's technique. Lots of knobs and switches are fine, but even more important is the instrument's responsiveness to the input it is being given. I usually set my amp for a good sound and then leave the settings alone for the entire session. Same for the bass, except for occasional tweaking of the pickup pan pot or treble output.

gtrguy · « **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2009, 09:17:22 AM »

I get louder as the night goes on so the drunks can feel my bass in their kiester more. I hate to pay sound folks money to just have them get it all set and then just sit there the rest of the night!

I have actually been using a 15 inch EV stuck in the smallest plywood cab around I could find and it rocks! No ports, about a foot deep and two feet long. Of course the bigger venues I have to drag out the heavey stuff, but my back is getting old.

I also play with my fingers, thumb, slap, use a pick, whatever. It's amazing what a pick can do to bring you out in the mix sometimes. Just play downstrokes and mute a little with the heel of the palm and it's instant Motown roundwound!
Dave