Author Topic: Resale Value (Read 298 times)

rockbassist · « **on:** August 09, 2010, 06:42:08 PM »

I have had an Epic for about four years and love the bass. I am curious though as to why Alembics do not seem to hold their value as well as some other brands. The price of a new Epic starts at $6,300 and you can find them used for around $1,500. Many used Fenders and Music Man basses are selling for close to their original retail value and older ones are selling for much more. You would think that since there are fewer Alembics out there that the resale price would be higher. Don't get me wrong, I love my Epic and have no intention of ever selling it. Just wondering what everyone else thinks. Please do not reply with a lesson on supply and demand economics. I am hoping to get some real honest opinions.

mike1762 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2010, 07:29:21 PM »

I think it's the ability to customize an instrument to YOUR specs that appeals to those who take the plunge and order a new build. As such, nearly every instrument is\unique in some way. When you're buying used, you're buying a bass that likely does not posses YOUR ideal features. Therefore, it's not worth anything approaching the cost of a new build (otherwise you'd just order a new one). Although you don't want to be the original owner trying to sell one, Alembics hold their value very well for all subsequent sales. An old Music Man might be worth more than a new one because of features found on them that are no longer offered (the old 2 band EQ, 3 bolt neck, string-through-body bridge, etc).

tmoney61092 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2010, 07:29:36 PM »

i think since the new sale value is so high that people wouldn't be willing to pay more for a used one when they could get a custom for about the same price, my opinion

~Taylor

tmoney61092 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2010, 07:31:15 PM »

hahaha, that's weird, same post at the same time, clever minds think a like

~Taylor

garth4664 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2010, 03:00:16 AM »

Slightly off topic but relevant. I'm in China and seeing some interesting changes. For one thing rock, jazz, pop, funk and generally western music and instruments are becoming more popular. This happened many decades ago in Japan but is still at the beginning here. If we look at Chinese culture, generally the wealthy people want the best that money can buy if they can afford it. In terms of basses this will mean Alembics.
Take home messages are:
1. Sooner or later there will be a Beijing Alembic dealer (perhaps I should start one)
2. Eventually there will be demand here for second hand and vintage instruments
3. Expect this to change the supply/demand balance for high end instruments (no change to the low end, they are all coming from China)
4. You will kick yourself for not grabbing the opportunity to get a Series 1 or 2 for $4000 on the second hand market
Just a thought, may not be as fast as I anticipate, but a year ago there were no decent basses for sale in Beijing, now there are 3 stores where I can buy something I would actually want to play.

rockbassist · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2010, 05:25:45 PM »

Mike, I think the ability to customize is important to anyone considering purchasing a new bass but most used bass will not possess your ideal features. Any bass can be customized. Why for example, do some Fender Jazz basses sell for more than twice their original price yet many Alembics sell for less than half? I think it should be other way around considering the quality of Alembics.

mike1762 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2010, 06:10:57 PM »

True, but most production basses are pretty much cookie cutter fare: Fender Jazz basses of a particular era will tend to be the same. If the current vogue is that 19XX FJ basses are really bitchin', they will all command a premium price. I think that doesn't happen with Alembics because they are all so unique... you can't predict what one Series I will sound like based on the sound of another Series I from the same year. Thus there just isn't a vintage market for Alembic. But I concur... it ain't right!!!

malthumb · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2010, 06:21:41 PM »

I agree with the issue around customization. Money spent on LEDs, multiple multiple laminates, off the hook inlays will not factor much into the resale price of the more expensive instruments.

On the other hand, the price increases that have been made over the past 10 or so years benefits the used markets for instruments bought before the price increases.

I bought my custom in 2000. I went on the quote generator last week and specced out a bass exactly to the specs of the bass I received in 2000. It priced out at about $8K more than the list price I was quoted when I ordered it. Of course the dealer discount and the special of the month helped bring my actual price down.

Bottom line....I see similar basses offered used for just a little less than I paid for mine in 2000.

Peace,

James

kryan1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2010, 10:24:05 AM »

I am also wondering why used Alembics do not hold value. I recently went to sell my 1982 Distillate that is in mint condition and was syrprised at the offer

jazzyvee · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2010, 12:11:55 PM »

Used good condition Series basses still seem to hold their price at a level above my budget regardless of their age. :-)

Jazzyvee

mike1762 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2010, 01:13:08 PM »

It's been my experience that used Alembics DO hold their value. I'm confident that I could sell any of mine for more that I paid. Now if you overpaid to begin with, that's a different issue. Sometimes you might be WILLING to pay above the going rate. If I found a used medium/short scale Balance K Series I/II with ebony/PH lams in the neck, maple body, CB top, and a Vermillion back, I would be willing to overpay for it because it's EXACTLY what I would custom order. Even if I paid 1-2K more than what you could reasonably expect the bass to bring in the used market, I'm still saving money. Since those are specs that most folks would NOT want in an Alembic, I doubt I would find myself in a bidding war anyone and I would expect to pick-up the instrument for LESS that the going rate.

tubeperson · « **Reply #11 on:** August 11, 2010, 01:39:21 PM »

Mike, I think the older the Alembic, the better it's resale value relative to its original sales price would be more accurate based on what I have seen. Let's say you pay $12,000 for a Series II made within the last few years even used. The number of buyers is very small to support making money on that, whereas more people are willing to spend $3,000 - $5,000 for the older Series treasures we see on eBay and the club site. Just look at the Walnut Series II at Bass NW. That $15,000 asking price is very high, maybe even higher than the original price (I suspect this is the case). Has it sold yet? No, even if we all get aroused oogling over it. Wish I had so much money I could make Brewsters Millions II - The White Trash years (all of you PC people please have a sense of humor!!!!!!!). Then I could waste my value dollars and buy it strictly on the emotional value, and perhaps bragging rights. Since I own the Roman Conqueror, and The Ed Roman Triple Omega, both Series basses, I know from what I state here. Perhaps in another 25 years the Alembics will outperform the vintage Fenders in investmet value, and not just sonic value, but the value I see in the Alembic brand far transcends dollars. Just my 2 depreciated cents! By then Mica will be a grandmother!!!! (If that is what see wants of course).

Most luxury items you get better value if you buy used, as long as you know what you are buying.

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2010, 02:49:41 PM »

When I worked at (oh, the shame of it) Guitar Center in '83-'84, we had a Spoiler in the store marked for $1500. That seems to be the bottom end of the range they're going for now. That strikes me as holding value pretty well. OK, yes, we had '50s Gibson hollowbodies for $125-150 that you can't touch for under $3000 now, and a '61 SG Les paul for $1500 that pushes $100K now, but I'm talking about holding value, not insanity.

Peter (who really wishes he'd been a good enough salesman to afford those then)

rockbassist · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2010, 05:04:36 PM »

Mike I disagree with you. As I mentioned in my original post, a new Epic is $6,300 yet you can get them used for around $1,500. I actually paid $1,000 for my 1997 Epic several years ago so I know I could easily get more than that for it. I bought another Epic 2 years ago for $900 and sold it for clsoe to $2,000 but that is still much less than its original cost.

Cozmik's post makes me kind of sick to my stomach. In the early 1980's my guitar player had a 61 SG. At the time he only paid around $400 for it. He sold it a couple of years later for $475. If he only knew.

mike1762 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2010, 07:00:42 PM »

We're making the same point (note I said USED Alembics hold their value)... if you're the original owner, expect to take a beating if/when you sell it. Bass NW will never sell that Walnut Series II unless they just happen to run across someone who wants those exact specs and doesn't have the patience to wait for a new build. As with Kevin's Epic, I bought all mine used and I feel OK about the money I spent.

I have a Music Man Cutlass I. I paid a little over $1000 for it new. Although there were only about 600 of them made, they only go for about $2000 now. That is a terrible rate of return over a 30 year time period; thus, I just don't look at these things as investments.