Replacing DI on an amp

[glocke]

I posted this on the Eden forum, but figured Id put it up here as I might get a faster response.
 
Did a gig last night with my WT800C, it was the first time I gigged with it for several months(have been using it for practice at home though), and the last time I used it the sound guy had no complaints. But last night was a diferent story.  
In the words of last nights sound guy, dude, your DI sounds like ass.....
 
I just checked it out a few minutes ago by running the DI through an mbox mini, running into my mac and listened through both headphones and monitors. I than compared it to the DI of a demeter preamp I have.
 
The Eden DI not only seemed to provide lower volume than the demeter (slightly I should say), but did indeed have what to my ears appeared as a slight hiss. The demeter DI in comparison was dead silent.
 
The hiss on the Eden DI was more pronounced with the ground button pressed in, and diminshed slightly when in the out position.
 
Anyone know how easy/expensive it would be for a tech to swap  out the DI, possibly for one similar to what is in my demeter (jensen).

[harald_rost]

Don't know about the DI but I had some problems with the input and output jacks (Send, Return, Tuner) on the back of my WT800 in the last few years. If not in use regulary they tend to corrode so I had a buzz sometimes. May be it's also a matter of contact problems?
 
Just a thought.
 
Harald

[poor_nigel]

The following is a rant on my opinions of Eden and repairs these days - David Eden no longer owns Eden Electronics.  He sold it off years ago.  The company is owned by a music conglomerate that knows nothing about any of the equipment.  To talk to them on the phone is to talk to any first tier technical support site that covers products from several brand names, which is all Eden has become - A brand name.  They do have a second tier, but in my cases, they were as (anti)helpful as the first.
 
I had my Navagator and one of my WT-1250's go down (Gee, what a coincidence, both within a week).  It took me weeks just to find a place to send it, and they told me that no one anywhere has a schematic for 1250's, not even the company that bought Eden has one.  What?  No one knows anything at 'Eden' tech support (One female kept running me in circles about warranty this and warranty that, and I was not trying to use the warranty - I was will to pay cash), and I ended up sending them to a place in New Jersy I had at least dealt with before.  It took over two months to get the 1250 repaired.  The NJ shop is pricey, but they do good work.  They told me they may not take the job if it goes beyond the power modules, as no schematic makes it too much of a guessing game.  So I was lucky to get the power amp fixed.
 
I wonder how many members of the Eden Forum (Of which I used to be a member) know the company was absorbed and is now just a label put on boxes manufactured by who knows who, who knows where?  Do I trust my Eden stuff anymore?  No I do not.  Will I buy anything with Eden on its label anymore?  No I will not.  Especially since they no longer manufacture the circuit boards in the models I own, and they are all circuit-board based modules.  If they go bad again, I have decided to dump em on eBay for parts and move forward with brands still owned and operated by their creaters, who at least have schematics and employees who know the products inside and out.

[glocke]

Hey Nigel,
 
Yeah, I feel the same way.  I bought the Eden gear I have now in the fall of 2008.  First 2x12xlt  cabinet I bought had a blown horn, so that got sent back.  Second one worked fine for about a year (during that year I gigged with it once and mostly used it for practice), but than a speaker faied.  Kind of a mystery how that happened since it was hardly ever driven very hard.  Just got that speaker back from Orange County Speaker Repair.
 
First WT800C I had very low output, that got sent back, the second one (one that I am posting about) developed a bad hum after about 6 months of use, that got fixed under warranty, but is now out of warranty with a possible DI problem.
 
I think the Eden gear I own sounds fantastic when its working, but Im wishing I had spent the money on something else.  Im probably going to be dumping this rig for a Bag End 2x12, and might look into getting an F2B with a light weight poweramp to run it.
 
As for where Eden is made and who owns it, I think all of their stuff is now made in China, and back in the fall US Music Corp. sold Eden to Jam industires based out of canada.
 
Kind of a shame.  I had always heard good stuff about Eden, and decided to use their gear in fall of 2008, it was only afterwards that I found out the company was not what it once was.
 
Funny thing is, over on the Eden forums the Eden fanboys still defend the Eden brand quite strongly.  When I first posted about some of the problems I had people were telling me that I caused the problems....Someone even told me that I blew the speaker because I had the bass turned to about the two clock position,  and that was too much low freqs for the cabinet to handle.

[kilowatt]

Greg,
Sorry I can't help you with your problem directly, but I don't think that all of Edens' DI's are of poor quality. I have an Eden Metro and have used the DI to record and have had some good results. Maybe it is just a contact problem as Harold has suggested. Plug in and remove a cable several times and try your test again.
 I had to have my Eden repaired at the factory several years back and had no problems. I actually spoke directly to David Norchow (Eden's founder) and he was beyond helpful. It's a shame when a company goes to a conglomerate whose only real concern is the bottom line.
 
Regards,
Pete

[keith_h]

So Thomas you bought another Navigator after I purchased yours? I will say that the one I bought from you has been pretty solid. I had to replace a pot and clean up the back panel connectors but that isn't anything I consider major for a unit  it's age. I don't think I would buy a newer model though.  
 
As far as the Eden forum most folks that have been around know about the sale to USM and the USM sale to some Canadian company. As far as active folks over there I would say a good number have moved to other companies since the original sale.  
 
As for myself I am interested to see what Dave Nordschow comes up with his new company D.N.A.
I hope to see some units nearby that I can try out. Unfortunately all I see on the current web site is hype of a vapor product.  
 
Keith

[poor_nigel]

Hey Keith - I always regretted selling that piece.  I never had a lick of problem with it.  I hope your Navigator lasts your life time.
 
Owning the previous Navigator was the reason I bought some more, newer Eden units, when I decided to go back to playing.  I should have bought older ones, I guess, but what good would that do, since I have such a hassle getting them repaired, anyway?!  I go along with Gregory calling some of the Eden Club members fanboys, as they seem brain washed.  They ran me in circles back then, too.  I knew when I typed in David Eden I had the wrong last name, but I could not remember it - Thanks for that info, Pete.  Right now my rig sounds great.  Using single 21 and two 10's or double that.  These Eden amps do have a sound I really like, but I am not going to go through repairing them again, as enough is enough.  
 
(Message edited by poor_nigel on January 24, 2010)

[JimmyJ]

A couple ideas:  
Looking at the manual for that amp I see there are a couple control options for that XLR out.  My first suggestion is to run it Pre-EQ.  Unless you really want the tone control settings to shape the sound you are sending to the PA, the EQ will mostly add noise.  (My thinking is that an amp's tone controls are more related to making the connected speaker sound good and you would set them differently if you were listening through a PA or recording rig.)
 
Second, you should experiment with the DI level control to see what works best.  If you have the time ask the soundman to plug you into a line level input and then turn up that output control until he says it's good.  That could lower your noise floor.
 
Lastly, rather than trying to rebuild the internal DI you can always just carry a regular DI box and put it inline before the amps input.  But this is presuming you aren't using the amp's effect loops, etc...
 
Experiment and you will find it!
Jimmy J

[pace]

Greg,  
 
At the theatre WT800's have ended up in our backline requests several times this year, and it's the only piece of equipment our rental guy always seems to bring a backup for.  FWIW, we never use the DI on these things, we usually opt for a Countryman DI.
 
(Message edited by pace on January 24, 2010)

[keith_h]

Greg,
I will say the DI on my Navigator is very quite. I have used it for recording without complaint. For live gigs I usually leave the DI set pre-compressor and pre-EQ. I usually set the gain between 11-12 o'clock.  
 
I looked at your thread on the Eden forum. You said you purchased the unit in December 2008. If this is the case it should still be under warranty (2 years for most Eden stuff). Personally I would try taking it in for warranty service (I understand this can be a pain in the arse).  
 
I just listened to your recording. It is not hiss. It does not sound like a ground loop. A ground loop would be lower. The sound reminds me more of RF interference like you would get from a TV, computer or motor. Again I think you should take it in under warranty as it should not be making that sound in my opinion.    
 
Keith
 
(Message edited by keith_h on January 25, 2010)

[glocke]

Thanks for all the replies....Thought these had a one year warranty, Ill have to send it back into Eden though.  Even though they list three repair centers near me, none of them are really repair centers.