Author Topic: Miles Davis - Bitches Brew  (Read 373 times)

terryc

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« on: June 22, 2010, 04:16:28 PM »
Okay, I like jazz, I got into MIles later on in my life but have been brought up on all is proteges, John McLaughlin, Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Tony Williams, Chick Corea.
'A Kind Of Blue' is my favourite Miles album but his 'Birth Of Cool' and subsequent stuff is also great to listen to along with John Coltrane BUT after watching a programme on satellite TV about his Isle of Wight performance along with interviews about 'Bitches Brew' I decided to buy it(very cheap on CD as it is a Columbia remaster re issue).
Did he lose the plot because to me it sounds like a load of musicians jamming or trying to jam to a completely erratic structure!!
In fact I will go to say that it is crap, a self indulgence musical snobbery that says ' we know we are better than the rest of you out there' Yes I know it is 1969 but to be voted the best jazz album of all time..maybe I am missing the boat!
If any of you can enlighten me and get me to listen to it a different way then please let me know.
I am giving it a few more plays then it goes in the trash!

edwin

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 05:53:37 PM »
Don't put it in the trash yet. This discussion has been happening since the record came out (or perhaps for a little longer as In A Silent Way, which came out before BB is the beginning of this era in my mind).  
 
To a certain extent, you get enjoy it or you don't. Trying to place it in the context of Kind of Blue or any of his bop recordings is probably an exercise in frustration. Mile's genius had many aspects and there are a few of them at work here. Just as he had in his previous ensembles, he played his musicians like instruments. Instead of telling them explicitly what to play, he chose the musicians for what he knew they would do left to minimal instruction. Also, as he had in the past, he was looking for ways to move beyond his previous efforts. There was no point for him to do another Kind of Blue, or Relaxin' or Birth of the Cool, as they had all been done and he had played out that material live to the point that it had been reinvented as far as it would go, especially with the Ron Carter/Wayne Shorter?Herbie Hancock, etc. group. What do you do when you've exhausted the intellectual/athletic possibilities in the genre you've created? Faced with another evolution, he wanted to include other streams of music that he heard around him, a lot of which were more groove based, whether funk from James Brown, rock from Jimi Hendrix (who was a huge influence) or music he heard from Africa. Realize also that the culture of 1969 was very different from today. What had been revolutionary uptown music (played in Harlem after hours after the musicians had done their downtown commercial gigs) had become mainstream music that had lost cultural relevance with contemporary black culture. While now it is seen as America's classical music, at that time, from those at the cutting edge of the revolution, it had the aura of being a sellout and the irrelevant music of people's parent's who had lost the fire to find freedom. From our comfortable view of history, it's easy to listen to Bitches Brew and find fault with it from a technical and effectiveness standpoint: it's meandering and not very dynamic. However, we've also got to realize that we've suffered the fallout from this music, which has been an endless barrage of noodly one chord funk jams that truly have no direction played by people who don't have the depth of experience behind them the way Miles and his musicians did. Remember that this really was new when it happened and there had yet to be any playbook written for this kind of music. What is the structure of no structure? Remember also, classical music and many other art forms had already gone through this kind of deconstruction, from Schoenberg to Jackson Pollock. Do you like Cubism? 12 tone music? Dadaism? Birthing a new music is sometimes messy. It can take some time to discover the logic and beauty in it for both creator and listener.
 
So, best jazz album of all time? Who knows? I think that is an analysis that misses the point of music (I've always hated Downbeat for their ridiculous polls). It's not a competition, but a communication. So, it might be one of the most effective communications ever (I transcend your pigeonholing of me as a player of jazz according to what you think jazz should be! Check this out! says Miles to the world in 1969). Even better, Miles still has people talking about this music more than 40 years later!
 
Perhaps another issue to consider is the editing. Teo Macero produced this record and took it upon himself to splice together various jams to create the pieces as he saw fit. Some think that he did a masterful job, others have opined that he butchered it. I'm so used to it that I appreciate it the way it is, but one of these days I'd like to hear the unedited versions. The technique of tape editing had never been used before in jazz, so like the rest of the record, it was an experiment where sometimes the theoretical aspects of the experiment outran the aural results, but to my ear, the overall CD is a success.
 
So, like it or not, but if you throw it out and it lies dormant in your head, you may find in a few years that you have an itch that only Bitches Brew will scratch. Or not.  
 
I had that experience with retsina ( a very dry white wine from Greece that is stored in pine casks, giving it a pronounced flavor of turpentine). My parents gave me a taste when I was 17 or so and I couldn't imagine that anyone would drink it by choice. 4 years later, all of a sudden I had a craving for it in the worst way!

pace

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2010, 06:01:32 PM »
>>>it sounds like a load of musicians jamming or trying to jam to a completely erratic structure!!>>In fact I will go to say that it is crap, a self indulgence musical snobbery>>voted the best jazz album of all time

hieronymous

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2010, 09:01:32 PM »
It's definitely a revolution in music - maybe focus more on the second disc first, the structures of the songs may be a bit more apparent. Also, check out the live albums like Black Beauty - a lot of the material from Bitches Brew is on there - I love the way they play the title track! It's more like heavy metal with the fuzz bass!

terryc

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 04:14:47 PM »
Okay. I take all these on board and I will listen with a more open mind approach.
I love Miles's early work, it has feeling, it has funk, it has that lovely melodic/harmonic structure.
Maybe I was expecting this piece to be more of the sum of it's parts..
Edwin.. your analysis is very worthy and I have read a few times now and will go and listen with a more realistic ear... pace..the bass seems lost in the mix but a push on the 50Hz slider will remedy that!!
I remember the first time I listened to Soft Machine 6 and it was the same experience and after a while I realised that it was what I was looking for..
Maybe at 53 I have have become jaded in what I expect and should go back to being willing to listen and appreciate.
Thanks for the suggestions and explanations..I will endeavour to be patient with this recording

pace

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 04:37:31 PM »
No Terry, please don't feel jaded, lost, or cynical in your search of music that suites YOU!!!!  
 
My first copy of Bitches Brew was on cassette. I used to put that in my boom-box, grab my skateboard and just cruise the streets of the city until dawn.... I guess some music doesn't make sense or relate until it's in the proper context.....

crobbins

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 07:55:37 PM »

bigredbass

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2010, 10:14:33 PM »
Back in the 70's, I thought I should get into Miles and I bought Live/Evil.  It didn't hit me on any level, it was way past me, and I thought I just must be some Texas redneck and I just wasn't cool enough to 'get it'.  
 
FF thirty years:  Last year I'm in the checkout at Walgreen's, and in the blowout CD's by the register was 'Kind of Blue', a Columbia re-issue for $1.99.  OK, I bought it.  It included liner notes, including a Leonard Feather reprint where he interviewed the Allmans during their heroic Fillmore East stand, who explained to him the the only two albums they'd listened to for the previous year were 'Kind of Blue' and John Coltrane's masterwork of the same time period, 'A Love Supreme' (gee, I wonder when Walgreen's will get that one . . . ).
 
Now I got it.  I may never get Bitches Brew-era Miles, but at least I'm not the total Texas oilfield trash I felt like all these years !  Now, where's my Buck Owens at Carnegie Hall . . .
 
J o e y

hb3

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2010, 09:10:36 AM »
I could never get into Bitch's Brew, but was able to get into some of the live stuff from that era.

terryc

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 08:25:57 AM »
bigredbass...'Kind of Blue' is my all time Miles's favourite, I have listened to BB a few times now and does have some nice phrases.
When I listen to John McLaughlin on the BB album his playing seems light years away from 'The Inner Mounting Flame'.
I will keep listening but if it doesn't float my boat it goes in the trash..sorry but I had a CD clearout about a year ago..some of the stuff I had bought just to try it out was immense..it went to a charity shop so someone can appreciate it

eligilam

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2010, 09:25:31 AM »
I don't have BB, but I've had a similar experience with Sketches of Spain.  After the relatively easy Birth of the Cool, SOS was a tough one to get through...but, after clenching my tympanic membranes and giving myself several pep talks in the mirror, I was able to peel away all the layers and start enjoying it.
 
However, Captain Beefheart's Lick My Decals Off, Baby DID go into the garbage...

cozmik_cowboy

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2010, 12:55:30 PM »
No question Miles was a genius, and everything I've heard from him amazes me.  That said, I must admit I admire his music more than I enjoy it, and most days would prefer to listen to Buck with Joey.  
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
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darkstar01

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2010, 01:37:07 PM »
if bitches brew is too much, clearly you're not fan of Coltrane's Ascension. that was a tough one to get through, but once i did i realized how great avant garde music is.  
anyway, the best part of that era of miles is the band that toured - miles, wayne shorter, chick corea, jack dejohnette and dave holland. that was the only band miles ever had to play all three generations of his music (standards, modal, electric stuff).  they released a box set of one of their tours in the early nineties, but it's never been reissued and is pretty hard to find. it's awesome if you can get your hands on it, though. a lot of it is borderline free improv, especially when it's just the rhythm section. might be why miles never wanted it released.

pace

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2010, 02:00:39 PM »
>>>Coltrane's Ascension. that was a tough one to get through,
 
Popping either that or Sunship (i forget) into the player got me fired from the record store back in college....

darkstar01

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Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2010, 03:05:08 PM »
hopefully sunship wouldn't get you fired. that's a great record. i used to get a kick out of sneaking peter brotzmann records (which for the most part are incredible) into the cd players in my music classes in high school.