New Fender Basses

[jet_powers]

I was in my local music shop the other day procuring a new set of strings for my acoustic guitar. I spotted a new Fender bass hanging on the wall. I don't know why but I had to pick it up and play it for a bit. It had a P body and a J neck with the PJ combo for pickups. It played really quite nicely and I looked the price tag. $800. Then I noticed it was MIM. Hmm... I thought that's where the Squiers came from. Has the quality improved on the Mexican models? Is it still possible to get a USA Fender without paying the same it would cost to add another Alembic to the harem? As one might deduce, I haven't kept up with the goings on of Fender for the past few decades....
 
JP

[mike1762]

I have a MIM Jazz... it plays/sounds as good as any MIA model I've ever used.  I'm guessing $800 was the MSRP, but you could have taken it home for $550-$600.

[cozmik_cowboy]

John;
Fenders are made in USA & in Mexico.  They have been made in Japan &, briefly (like 1991-93), Korea, which stopped when the opened the Mexico plant  - I don't know if they're still doing MIJ or not.  Squiers were first MIJ, then MIK (for a while concurrently with Fenders), and now Indonesia.  I have played all of the above except MIJ Fenders, and IMHO J, K, M, & I, Fender or Squier, are all better guitars than most anything Fender USA has turned out since about 1966.  That's head-to-head - throw in the price factor & I'm amazed they can still sell anything USA.
 
Peter
 
(Message edited by cozmik_cowboy on July 19, 2010)

[bigredbass]

Yes, depending on the piece, there are nice buys at reasonable price points throughout their range.  Of course their top line American axes and Custom Shop pieces are price-y, relative to the Mex and Squier articles, but remember these are supporting American labor and their highest spec parts and pickups.
 
Looking for a Jazz and want a real shock?  Check out the Squier Classic Vibe 60's Jazz Bass (available in white only).  Amazingly nice bass, can be bought almost anywhere for $350 all day long.  Add a couple of Fralins or your favorite pickups just to fine-tune the tone if necessary, get a tweed case, done.  I've always had a soft spot for Squiers, amazing how often they can shame their older brothers.  And yes, the Mexican Fenders can be very fine.
 
I've always wanted to build a couple Warmoth or Mighty Mite, etc., 'parts' basses.  That's what I love about fenders, ya just screw 'em together like building a hot rod.  I keep daydreaming a silver PBass, black parts/pickguard w/ PJ Activators . . . . I guess you never completely leave home, huh?
 
J o e y

[sonicus]

Besides  my  3 Alembics  I also still have a few Fenders . The 1971  Precision Maple neck/ Ash body  is stock. The 1983 Jazz Ash body/Maple neck  was stock when I picked it up in '93 but I modified it a bit my self a year afterward. I installed a Schaller roller saddle bridge, replaced the stock Jazz pick ups with Bartolini 9W4 units and also a graphite string nut. The Stock tuners were fine. I noticed what I thought was a very favourable outcome and always got compliments on the sound in particular from other musicians and engineers. I also have other customized Fenders with similar mods but fretless. On the one with the Rosewood fingerboard  Jerry Dorsch ( Co partner with Geoff Gould at one time with Modulus  ) finished the lined fretless finger board for me with a epoxy like coating similar to a Pedulla Buzz Bass.
   
         As far as the MIM   ones go , I picked one up around 93( don't remember the date of manufacture) as well BUT I could really tell the difference between the MIM and USA.  The 83 USA was a keeper and I sold the MIM.
 
(Message edited by sonicus on July 19, 2010)

[cozmik_cowboy]

Add a couple of Fralins or your favorite pickups just to fine-tune the tone if necessary...
Before you drop the $ on new p/ups, try upgrading the pots & caps; you don't need to go Alembic-quality parts - indeed, if you're looking for a vintage Fender sound, you don't want to.  You can keep it under $50 for a Strat, a lot less for a P-Bass, & it may be enough to make the stock p/ups work for you (and especially do this if you are going for the new p/pups).
And I guess I should have said, my judgement in the previous post was based on build quality - the MIAs do have better guts.
 
Peter  
 
(Message edited by cozmik_cowboy on July 19, 2010)

[white_cloud]

I'm generally not a big fan of MIM Fender's as the quality is very inconsistant. The build quality (check out some of the loose neck pocket joins) electrics & pups seem to be poor - but then again for instruments that fall into that certain price range they are pretty good value & not much else can be expected.
 
I think it says it all about USA Fenders when a company like Lakland can produce Korean built basses (admitedly at a higher price point) that arent just better than modern US Fenders...but also probably as good as sought after vintage Fenders.

[rami]

Fender really has no competition in the Bass market other than it's own Japanese and Mexican branches.  I'm very impressed with their quality and I can see that Fender USA is motivated to improve their quality if they're going to lose sales to their own foreign divisions.
 
Sure, there are many companies, American & foreign that can make a better and/or less expensive Bass, but nobody has a hold on the market like Fender.  The Jazz & Precision Basses are still (and likely to remain forever) the industry standards.

[hieronymous]

I have a soft spot for Fender Japan - I grew up in Tokyo, and those were all I could afford. But turns out they were great instruments! I still use an MIJ Strat that I picked out with my dad over 20 years ago. And when I took my Jazz Bass RI (bought in the late '80s) to Jim Mouradian in Cambridge, Mass. for a setup, he was really impressed with the stock pickups.
 
They are still making instruments, for a long time they were marked Made in Japan (MIJ), then switched to Crafted in Japan (CIJ) (something to do with a change in factories?), now I hear that they have gone back to MIJ. A few are officially sold in the States (like the Marcus Miller 4-string, Mustang reissue, and Geddy Lee), but they offer many more varieties. They used to be easily bought, since one of the major retailers in Japan (Ishibashi) had English speaking staff so they would ship them out, but Fender in America put a stop to it. There are a few people that somehow go around the regulations, though.  
 
Another thing to realize is that Fender Japan makes a lot of basses at different price points, from beginner to custom, and can range from around $600 to over $2000. Oh, and right now the dollar/yen exchange rate is terrible, so they are way more expensive than they were when I was living there in the '80s!

[briant]

If you dig through the pile of MiM instruments that any GuitardCenter has at any given point in time it is very possible to find the proverbial diamond in the rough.  I?ve played a few MiM Jazz basses that sounded and played as good or better than any of their made in America stuff.

[tmoney61092]

i personally like the MIA Fenders the most, i played a MIM Precision and didn't like it, then i played an MIA and loved it, same way with their jazz basses, i love the MIA but not the MIM, i can hear a small difference but it's the attention to detail that i like about the MIA and the way they play and feel, just my opinion
 
~Taylor

[spose]

the USA Fender basses have graphite reinforced necks, you can really feel and hear a dif IMO
 
the hardware is better and the electronics are better...again IMO

[bigredbass]

For me, Fender is the 300# gorilla due to their size and distribution and resulting market share.  I would suggest that they do indeed have competition on the top end from the likes of the Laklands and Lulls and Sadowskys and so on.  They also have to deal with their 'first cousins', in particular a very resurgent Music Man, as well as G + L.  And in my experience, Fenders are not the automatic choice for young guys, I see LOTS of Soundgear Ibanez and Schecters these days.
 
Due to their 'spending spree' on so many other brands in the last 10 years, their prices have continually crept upward to almost-Gibson pricing;  this was not the case previously, when Fender prices across the board (save for Custom Shop pieces) were very reasonable.  Gibson's prices have never recovered from Henry J's acquisitions; at least Fender doesn't run its new brands out of business quickly !  
 
Also, Fender will always seem like Harley to me:  They only seem to adopt seemingly-obvious-to-everyone-but-them improvements way behind the curve, after everyone else has stolen a march on them.  
 
I will always admire the job that Fender did recovering itself from the edgoe of the grave in the early 80's.  Bill Schultz and his staff did an amazing job, and the MIA basses are very fine axes, but I hardly see anything that would keep me from looking at Laklands or Sadowskys . . . or a P/J Elan !  Hey, I gotta get me one of those ! !
 
J o e y

[svlilioukalani]

I bought a Fender P-Bass deluxe American from BassNW  last month. I set out to get a Mike Lull or a Sadowski. But after picking up this bass, it?s been my main gigging ax.  The frets on this bass were plecked by Mike Lull. If played side by side with a Mike Lull bass, or the other high end fender copies in the shop; it holds it?s own. Amazing rich deep tone. And I bought it for it?s tone. But it also plays nice. Fender improved neck, much thinner. Ultra low action. And the tone. A used 2 year old deluxe goes for  under $900. I like it as much as my Essence, Vector of Epic?s.  
 
I play in rough bars. There is a bit of a fear factor traveling around with 2 Alembic?s. But there is no fear throwing around a fender, or using a gig bag.
 
I sold off several 1970?s fenders when I first bought an Alembic Bass. I became very anti Fender. Much like many of the readers of this form. But not as extreme?..
 
The guys at Fender have learned from the others. They may be slow. But their current American Deluxe Basses are the greatest work.  
 
To a pro, there a major difference between the American made Fender basses and MIM. That?s why there cheaper . Kind of ironic the Mexican copy of the American Deluxe is $700 new. And a year old used  plecked American deluxe was $800.
 
When I picked up the Mexican Bass it felt great at first. And is a very good bass.  But the tone isn?t there. Cheaper  wood and materials were used, and it shows.
 
I think I may sell off my vintage Gibson EB-O, to get the bass, on the link I posted, as my back up. If anybody wants a Gibson?
 
http://bassnw.com/Used%20Basses/fender

[rami]

I know ALOT of Bassists.  I don't know one who owns a Lakland, Lull or Sadowsky.  In the Fender class, I personally own a 20th Anniversary Stingray, a couple of G&L's, and a ridiculous number of Fenders. It's the same with most (at least 95%) of the Bassists I know. The main Bass is usually a Fender, everything else is either for show or prestige.  I can easily sell off everything else.  My Fenders....hmmm....not so easy to part with.