Author Topic: Louis Johnson - Alembic? (Read 229 times)

hendixclarke · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2007, 11:43:55 PM »

Hey man, its all about the quality.

My question was simple. Why would Leo build Louis a bass, to his spec's and years later, he drops it and never performs with his axe again?

My question is interesting, because you don't see this honor everday, nor do you see such a honor rejected either.

I am not going to lie, I don't know the story to this conundrum, and going off the subject in saying I said this, and that was a waste of time.

Please, anybody (somebody) give me a hint, to understand this wonderful story. It's pretty historic and wonderful to share.

hendixclarke · « **Reply #16 on:** December 11, 2007, 12:23:30 AM »

I have nothing against either Leo Fender or Louis Johnson. To think of me in this way, was empathically incorrect. With such comments you make about me, and to dare discuss about a bass you say you own, and to be so uninformed, blows my mind.

I have something against people like you, who don't even know enough about their basses, and yet they try to make me look foolish.

That's real sad to me. It took me to set you straight about Leo and Louis. You said the following:

Leo Fender started MusicMan in 1971, after he sold Fender to CBS, but didn't really kick it in gear untill 1975, after his non-compete agreement with CBS expired.Fender Musical Instruments HAVE NEVER been involved with MusicMan, just Leo himself. And, the 70's are still kinda hazy for me :-(, so I don't feel confidant about anything to say about Louis Johnson, except I sorta remember he played a MM for a while.

Man, where is your facts? I don't believe one word you said and you took my whole discussion out of scope.

adriaan · « **Reply #17 on:** December 11, 2007, 01:43:34 AM »

My comments were not about Louis Johnson's involvement in the development of the StingRay, which is an accepted fact. I'm not trying to stifle your freedom of expression, merely observing that asking about people's past motivations without having these people involved in the discussion is second guessing.

Asking about motivations why people did not do this-that-or-the-other is based on the assumption that there actually was a motivation not to, where there might have been simply a motivation to do something else. You won't be interested in my lack of motivation for not eating a bagel for breakfast this morning.

hendixclarke · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:35:33 AM »

Oh, you mean Leo and Louis had created an accord??? No way man....that's half truth...

Oh, you mean Leo built a bass under the guidelines of Louis Johnson called stingray???
No way man....that's half truth too.

Oh, you mean Leo agreed Louis to endorse Music Man basses too???
No way man....that's half truth as well.

You know what Adriaan?

Your point is weak. (very weak...)

You were playing it very cool in your comments, and you were careful not to give away too much of your lack of knowledge about this whole matter. Too late, don't try to clean it up, just come back correct next time and have a better explained full point of view.

Now as far as the term motivations in your depictions of my position, you are putting words in my mouth, and I must say, how wrong you are there too.

The term that fit my vernacular is: MOTIVES. A motivation is different from motives.

For example: (I'll break it down to you...)

You can be motivated to have something, but lack the motives (rational knowledge steps) to get it.

[Ring the bell, Schools over].

However I do give you credit here, and you are right 100%:

I really don't care about or interested in the slightest, about you eating bagels unless you was choking on the damn thing, in this case I would try to save your life (yes, I am still a good sport...) and that would be out of correcting your problem as I am correcting you now.

But seriously, I did think endorsement deals are more on the side bad, than good. The Leo and Louis deal was a hard lesson, and this was my main idea on this topic. You should not be so quick to judge, for I only asked a question.

adriaan · « **Reply #19 on:** December 11, 2007, 03:48:50 AM »

I'll leave you to continue with this thread as you see fit.

jacko · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2007, 04:57:34 AM »

Hal.
If you look up musicman stingray on wikepedia, you'll see the whole history of both the company and the Bass. Specifically, it says.. Designed by Fender(leo), Walker and Sterling Ball (Sterling was a beta tester for the instrument), the StingRay bass appeared in 1976.
The only thing it has to say about louis johnson is this..Louis Johnson was one of the first prominent bassists to use the instrument. Note they say ONE of the first users. Nowhere have I found anything to suggest the stingray was designed for him.

Graeme

white_cloud · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2007, 05:32:59 AM »

Hi guys,

I was also going to let this thread run out of steam because it was heading in the wrong direction for me (and probably many other members)

So, my final input is this; Louis Johnson himself made the claim that he had a creative input of sorts into the stingrays conception, and that it was designed with him in mind!

He made these comments during his starlick instruction tape about a zillion years ago!

Did Louis have an overactive imagination or an inflated ego? I dont know..what the hell....

Im just going nextdoor right now to ask him

lbpesq · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2007, 07:18:54 AM »

Hal:

Blame it on drugs! lol

Bill, tgo

hendixclarke · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2007, 11:42:48 AM »

Now that statement was an attack on Louis Johnson (white_cloud). You missed.

Ibpesq, I am not too clear what you mean't. Are you saying someone was taking drugs? If so, who. Be clear.

Yeah, and... Ibpesq! what are you doing here? Now that's hilarious too bigtime! LOL!!!!

Jaco, I did go to wikepedia, under Louis Johnson.
Did you not read the link.

[In short order (and I mean very short)]
All you guys sound crazy.

I am so happy you guys got together, because you'd made it much easier for me to roast all y'all and I could lump you-all together. Great

Back to Louis Johnson and Joe Fender... Why don't you just be honest guys. You find it hard for a upstanding man like Louis Johnson in his 20's to strike such a deal with the great Joe Fender.

On the flip side, you find it hard for Leo to seek the greatest bass player (Lord of the ring) in POP/R&B to sell his basses?

You guys are talking sideways...

Leo needed help like we need help with our US domestic trade deficit.

Ibanez, Aria, BC Rich, Pevey, Kramer, Alembic, and many other mass units, were all in persuit to make their mark. Leo needed something (someone) and Louis was the man.

It's just for fun old chaps'

Merry Christmas my Alembicans!

hendixclarke · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2007, 11:59:19 AM »

During that same time period, Kramer pay's Stanley Clarke to promote their basses as well. Therefore, it wouldn't be such a miraculous event for Leo to offer a deal to Louis.

So yeah, your music man was designed by Louis Johnson and SO WHAT!

Some of you guy's have a George Forman Grill too!

Now, I am just waiting 30 years later, when someone going to say that was bull too. Respect yourselves!

hendixclarke · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2007, 12:34:49 PM »

Washburn took Bootsy's design (in a deal) approved by Bootsy, and now you can purchase a SPACE BASS.

That's a half truth too...?

You got eye's and still can't see...

Im done with you!

hendixclarke · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2007, 02:31:26 PM »

Why did Louis Johnson stop playing Alembics and most importantly, his creation (Produced by Leo Fender) the Notorious Music Man Stingray?

?

I have a theory... (I hope you guy's know what a theory is...)

Since I can't ask Leo, (May he Rest In Peace) I believe Louis Johnson stop using the Alembic after he and Leo struck a deal with the Music Man, thus the Stingray project would be born, to creat to creat Louis signature sound.

As for Alembic basses, with Stanley Clarke standing there too..., and not even Stanley Clarke had an endorsement deal from Alembic; why would Louis even bother knocking on such doors; and if he did, this would had been a very bold move.

The facts of the matter is, after the Stingray was created for him, you never seen Louis Alembics on any Album covers or in his performances. What does this tell me? Louis was honoring as contract.

I believe, this event, is what got him to drop his Alembic bass. Also, it was not his sound.

Now, as to what got Louis Johnson to drop his ideal bass i.e Music Man Stingray basses?

Maybe it was just business.

Maybe the new owners of Music Man, wouldn't continue or transfer/honor the business relationship established by Leo and Louis.

Louis maybe asked himself: I made this bass and I proved it's worth to millions, and and served my time and its brand toured everywhere. Like Evil Knivel and his special made Harley Davidson...

That would be considered a raw deal and an insult to anyone to drop.

Now that's my theory.

My last word on the matter, is anyone who have a Stingray (none Erine Ball) got a gem of a bass, for EB could never re-create them.

Ok, I am done here, I had enough fun until something else pops up...

I am, going shopping

David Houck · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2007, 02:47:59 PM »

In my role as moderator, I would like to suggest that we give this thread a rest.

Thanks and enjoy!

terryc · « **Reply #28 on:** December 13, 2007, 01:29:42 AM »

I second that!!!! Davehouck

jbybj · « **Reply #29 on:** December 14, 2007, 08:31:25 AM »

geez, don't you just love people who have to have the last word......

oops, sorry