Author Topic: Louis Johnson - Alembic?  (Read 206 times)

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« on: December 08, 2007, 04:19:11 PM »
Louis Johnson (back in the day) used Alembic basses when The Brother Johnson's was at their apex during the 70's. I often wondered whatever happened with those Alembic bass(s) Louis played.
 
Man, that was some great music, but in the the end, I believe, Quincy Jones switched gears from the Brother's Johnson, to the Brother's Jacksons because he knew, the Brother's Johnsons only could go so far with pop. Their music was much too good to be POP stars. Those guys were not clowns and clowns are the ones that get's the most attention.
 
Michael Jackson, was the best clown for the bucks and he was real cheap back in them days too.(IMO)  
 
As it all unfolded, Louis Johnson was able to salvage is talents by supporting MJ on Off the Wall, Thriller and I believe he was able to tour with Micheal too.  
 
From a bass playing perspective, Louis Johnson was someone, Quincy just couldn't go on the road without and that disco funky slap-pop was huge during that time, and honestly, Michael Jackson (Jacksons) were really headed to obscurity during that period. Quincy's vision was another example of pure genius in finding and turning dirt, into gold.  
 
If anybody knows anything, to work with Quincy is the highest honor anybody could wish and achieve. In fact, the Brother's Johnson was basicly Quincy's vision from the start and they too won Grammys under Q's leadership (Just like that...)  
 
Yeah, for Louis Johnson, it was like: Q, no more Brothers Johnson? and you want me to support Michael on bass? No problem. I got you, I am there, what else would you like me to do?!
 
Why did Louis switch from Alembics, to Music Man Basses?
 
I'll take my answers off the air.

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2007, 01:28:07 PM »
Come to thing of it, in sharing this information... both Louis and Stanley joined forces on Stanley's Album Rock Pebbels and Sand; title cut: We supply (all your funky needs).
 
It was Alemibc slap-popping, fast fingering, and vocals. It was so good, it was BAD. Those guy's were both in their prime-time and it was at this time, I was wanting an Alembic very badly. The recording of that jam was done so well, I could hear the actual differents (distinctly) of both the Music Man and Alembic basses from each other. It was like, these guys wanted the audience to hear the differences. The Music Man Stingray sounded Glassy bright and basically a sound most basses could copy. Therefore, when I said it was a stingray, I am really guessing the brand, but Louis was really slang the hell out of the Music Man's at that time, so this was only a hunch or a educated guess on my part. However, on the other hand, even if Stanley Clarke was not playing the other bass on the track, I knew it was an Alembic.  
 
This kind of bass duel was done before it got popular. Now you can hear Vic, Stan and Marcus (Three bass sounds) and run comparisons today.  
 
Yet still, after all those years, Alembics sounded different, while the others (regradless who's playing), sound the same as any other good bass(s). Honestly, I couldn't tell you the kind of bass it Louis was play on the cut, but I knew damn well, it was not an Alembic with Stanley standing there .  
 
As to Louis yeilding his playing of Alembic basses, I often thought; he may have felt he needed a good axe to distinguish himself from others with other famous bass players and their basses.  
 
I am sure pretty sure, Louis would have been the first to grab an Alembic bass, if Stanley was not first.  
 
If I am correct, Louis could had felt a bit withdrawn from his original Alembics because he may have been tired of people saying: Louis, you got the bass Stanley Clarke plays... or, Man, that sounded like Stanley when you did that...
 
Therefore, I think this is why he simply stopped playing them in public. Thus, The Musicman Stingray basses was the direction which would set him apart and prove effective and it appeared to work. Mst people identify LJ with Stingray basses. Therefore, problem solved...?
 
-Wrong-
 
Now, I don't see Louis playing Stingray basses anymore. Therefore, now I am lead to believe, he ran a ground as it related to Music Man's Stingray quality and possible corporate consistency.  It appears now, Stingrays were more of a prop than anything else.  
 
Everybody knows, pound for pound, Stingrays don't hold a candle next to Alembic basses and I am very sure, Louis knew it too.  
 
So, what lesson is learned here?  
 
Louis should had just kept playing his Alembic. If he did, he'd been eventually identified as the guy who plays Alembic too. Sure, this would had put some greater pressure on Stanley Clarke, he couldn't claim or corner the market.  
 
In otherwords, if Louis kept his Alembic, I am not saying he would be any better or worse, but what I am saying is, Louis would had eventually been in Stanley's mind: wonder what Louis would do in this situation...  
 
Louis was in back of Stanley's rearview mirror and with the Alembic bass as his ride, musically speaking, he was in the race. Also when you look at the times (back in those days), Louis Johnson had a far bigger audience than Stanely Clarke too.
 
Louis Johnson in the long run made a bad mistake switching for inferior product to distinquish himself. Now, LJ is not even playing Stingrays basses anymore. Go figure...
 
Also when you look at the times (back in those days), Louis Johnson had a far bigger audience than Stanely Clarke too.

white_cloud

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2007, 01:45:54 PM »
Hi Hal,
          I believe that Leo fender designed the first Musicman stingray basses in consultation with louis! In fact it is on record that Louis stated Leo designed and built them for me!
 
The bottom line here is this...Endorsement=$$$$!
 
I dont believe Alembic endorse/hand out freebie instruments to any artists! Is this the case, or am I mistaken??

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2007, 08:46:25 PM »
John, I would agree with you there. I remember this too, but I was not sure and your recall, put things in perspective.  
 
Yes, money was the thing, (when is not an issue...(retorically asked...)) and Leo was smart to snatch Louis up in those days, because The Brother's Johnson was Hot! Also, the requirements Louis requested, was nothing really high level engineering to begin with, anyway. The raw material were still cheap as a bass costing 98 bucks from a Sears catalog.  
 
Leo seen Louis and Louis seen Leo and the bottom line, basses sold off the floor like hot cakes. Alembic didn't need a gimmick or a Ronald McDonald like clowns to appeal buyers. To some degree, the gimmick idea rest upon the maker's like Fender. Louis, on the other hand, was smart to ask for such a deal, and get it. Like I said Louis get's my respect for seeing his value/brand worth the discussion.  
 
As far as Alembic goes, who need help with selling a bass, if your basses sell themselves? It may had been possible, Quincy Jones opened the discussions with Leo on behalf of Louis Johnson because of the many years they'd known each other (IMO) and leverage the deal (who knows?).  
 
You also have to remember, Alembic new was young company and with limited connections in the distribution game. Fender is an older company, and was available everywhere and anywhere, and could offer many options than Alembic (...and they still could).  
 
If Alembic wanted to pay performers for endorsing Alembic gear, they would. But then you must ask yourself, why would they need to do this?
Quality, quality, quality speaks louder than endorsements.  
 
Suppose the person who was paid to endorse, was to have run-ends with the law, the product image becomes tarnished too. You are taking about music too with all the drugs and other risks... Alembic principles are RIGHT-ON.  
 
Personally, it says a lot about a company, when they refuse to provide endorsement deals with performers. In fact, it speaks of more value because, if a great performer (who could afford any product in their profession) chooses a product and pays like everybody else... then it speaks well of the product they use and it becomes an issue of a non-bias nature. Alembic found away to get the endorsement, and get paid too. BRILLIANT!  
 
I think Alembic wins here again. Both Louis and Stingrays expired relations, was to end after the party was over. In the end, Louis loses some credibility because some things are best when you pay for them and he would have been free to speak his mind on real quality, and not for those things he got paid to say or not say. That's bullsh_t!

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2007, 10:12:58 PM »
Sorry, I got a little sloppy toward the end.. But what I wanted to say was:
 
When you pay for a product, you have every right to offer an honest opinion as you pleases concerning quality, for quality sake.  
 
However, if you are paid by a company to use their products, you can't say anything about the quality in public.  
 
Now, you'd become a paid hype-man. Who can trust you for a product, when it took them to pay you to use it?  
 
Well, maybe I will not use it until I get paid...
 
Pure foolishess...
 
Alembic practices are as good as a company can get. Alembic performers are not paid to share there time, nor to discuss their opinions. You can't do better than that, when it comes to quality, for quality sake.
 
My hat goes off to Alembic and performers who don't get fooled and become bought and sold as paid hypemen unless they do it with class like George Forman  (Put your name on it!)

adriaan

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 01:13:10 AM »
What a lot of second-guessing.

white_cloud

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2007, 04:41:27 AM »
I really like Musicman basses. To me they were kind of like an improved heavyweight or muscular Fender precision! A simple, powerful and reliable axe! Bright, punchy sound.
 
Compared to an Alembic the production costs to make a Musicman must have been hugely lower when you consider the materials used and factory construction etc. Louis Johnson was one of my favourite funk players of the era thats for sure, just seeing him slap his musicman was enough to make me want one! so, to surmise, the endorsement certainly worked for Leo!!
 
Another example was the endorsement that Jaydee provided for Mark King (who actually preffered Alembic!) The high profile that MK gained sent Jaydee sales through the roof so to speak!  
 
In my mind, the finest endorsement of a product has to be when the top quality artists pay for their instruments just like you and I. After all, they can easily afford it..and if they didnt pay we would pay more to cover the costs of the rich muso's axe...and I for one would certainly grudge doing so!

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2007, 09:31:21 AM »
Music man were some bad ass basses (back in those days) when Louis Johnson was playing them. Now,  
they're not even Fenders. The company sold them off.  
 
Coincidentally, when The Brothers Johnson?s fell off the charts, that was like the beginning toward the end for Music Man's as a Fender product. My guess (again) Fender was having problems with sales, so they sold it off.  
 
Louis on the other hand, still plays bass, but I never seen him playing Music Man's anymore. My question was why, and the answer I got was endorsements. OK, so in the end, who won? I feel as a consumers, I loss from both ends. Leo got paid, Louis got paid, but in the end, I can't even buy a new (off the factory floor) Fender Music man today. Even if you could, I would be some-what skeptical of the quality.  
 
For example: I could even ask this question:  
 
Louis Johnson is my bass hero, if he don't uses Music man's anymore, I will follow...
 
I am not saying all people who purchased Music man?s will go to this extreme example, but clearly, those are the hidden risks a company must face if they allow their products to be endorses by celebrities.  
 
Never had I ever seen Jimi Hendrix endorse Fender Strats, for I don't think Jimi really cared about such acts. I believe Jimi felt, his music was just too important to focus on trivial matters like endorsements.  
 
Many would believe, Jimi gave Leo, the best endorsement in the world (ironically speaking) and still considered the best endorsement money can't buy... it's called: word of mouth.

adriaan

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2007, 09:47:05 AM »
Guys, can you drop the second-guessing? You're passing off half-digested rumours from decades ago as facts. People change, business changes, idols turn out to be mere mortals - so what.

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2007, 10:02:04 AM »
I am happy you pointed this out.
 
So please, excuse yourself, and follow your truth.

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2007, 11:21:18 AM »
I think this conversation is a bit too advanced for you, please go to an area where the people are not giving their opinions... (I honestly don't know where you would go... but you obviously didn't find it here.  
 
I am in American, where we are allowed speak, or write our opinions, if not here, it would be somewhere else. Whether its about music, football player Michael Vic's fair trial for dog-fighting , it is our right as Americans to agree or disagree with our monies or votes.  
 
The point is, I consider everybody on this board worthy of their own opinions. Some I agree, some I disagree like yours. You can still post what you want, but you really never said anything which required some of your experiences to reference where you claim we speak half truths. Your just making blanket statements to cover everything said. Sorry you live in a world of absolute. (Go look that up...) Which tells me, you don't have an opinion. Opinions in your world are evil and wrong!  
 
If this stuff is offensive to you, hey... find a discussion that moves you. Don't even think, I would validate your remarks WHY, because you say so...?  
 
Who are you? (Rhetorically speaking, for I don't really care what tree you fell from...)  
 
Good day.

5stringho

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2007, 07:15:23 PM »
Hal, I'm not quite sure what Music Man or Leo Fender or even Louis Johnson did to you, but obviously it must have been quite traumatic. It would be nice to get your facts straight before you start a rant, and like Adriaan said, not pass off half-digested rumors and innuendo as fact.
Leo Fender started MusicMan in 1971, after he sold Fender to CBS, but didn't really kick it in gear untill 1975, after his non-compete agreement with CBS expired.Fender Musical Instruments HAVE NEVER been involved with MusicMan, just Leo himself. And, the 70's are still kinda hazy for me , so I don't feel confidant about anything to say about Louis Johnson, except I sorta remember he played a MM for a while. I was really not into the whole funk thang at the time. But, The StingRay was introduced in 1976, and to this day is one of the MOST SUCCESSFUL bass guitars ever produced.Leo left in 1979 due to disagreements within the company, and Ernie Ball bought it in 1984, and has never looked back.StingRays have been played by a LOT of musicians on a LOT of records and made MILLIONS OF DOLLARS for their owners without ever being paid a DIME by Leo Fender. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE GREAT BASSES! They are one of the easiest to record, able to get great tones, and play very nicely. One of the most recognized Fretless Basses ever is the 1979 Sunburst StingRay Pino Palladino BOUGHT from Sam Ash in New York, and still uses to this day. Yea, they may not cost $12,000, but they get the job done!
Now, I'm and American, and here's MY opinion. I LOVE my Alembic, and I certainly will LOVE the one that the elves are currently constructing for me. It's being built EXACTLY like I want it to be made, and it's costing me a BUNCH! That was my choice. Now, I also have a MusicMan StingRay I bought new in 1986, and a 5-string StingRay my wife bought me 6 years ago for my 40th birthday. They ARE currently my main basses. I use one or the other, or both, at virtually every gig I play, and have since I bought them. I use my other basses, but I generally ALWAYS have a MusicMan. And, after playing them for hundreds of gigs, rehearsals, sitting around the house, jams, etc., I can honestly say I have had LESS trouble out of 20-some years of MusicMan Basses than I have had from ANY of my HighEnd basses, yes, including my Alembic. Clean them up, change the Strings, put a Battery in 'em every once in a while, and PLAY! I've adjusted the neck once on my 5, and twice in 21 years on the 4. And trust me, nobody ever paid me to play them! Most people would probably rather pay me NOT to play them !
I respect your opinion, but there is way too much of people slamming other product here. We are a diverse bunch, and most of us play a lot of different instruments from different manufacturers. I Thought this forum was to talk about how GREAT Alembic is, instead of raggin' out what other people make or play!! Wish politicians would talk about what they Can do, instead of how bad the other person is, Too!!Have fun with what ya got!
BCoool, Mike, Tho

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2007, 10:57:38 PM »
I suggest you re-read what I said. I have not bad mouth Music Man Basses. Can't you read, you must be crazy because Louis John?
 
My simple question was: why did Louis Johnson stop playing Alembic basses and why did he ultimately stop playing Music Man Stingrays in particularly as well?
 
Now, if you want to make something about anything more abut what I said, then have the floor. Also, I don't need you to tell me what I can or can't speak on especially if you're not articulate enough show me what I said was wrong.  
 
In understanding quality, I personally believe attributes of stability and consistency are important TO ME.  
 
Maybe you don't have a problem with axes being bought and sold like a stock commodity, but not me. Each time a new owner carries (CEO) even, the quality can change either for the better, or the worse. However, from a risk standpoint, the risks are higher that quality would be compromised just do to uncertainties of inexperience?s. This is a normality any new business takeover or acquisition. (Common sense stuff...)
 
Anyway, I am happy you own an Alembic because you out of all people must have good taste  But please don't even-try to insult my intel when you say your Music Man is a better quality...hummm and out lasted your Alembic bass?
 
Well, this is possible. I can accept this. I could also accept people loving Music man basses more than Alembic too. But its more out of an exception, (meaning error) then the rules. Hey, I'll give you two more music man's for your problem low-quality Alembic... DEAL?
 
Yeah, just what I thought.

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2007, 11:06:40 PM »
Correction:
 
 
I suggest you re-read what I said. I have not bad mouth Music Man Basses. Can't you read, you must be crazy because Louis Johnson was in fact the first to introduce Music man Stingray's basses.  
 
And yes, it was build to his spec's too, by Leo personally!
 
 
 
Good day!

hendixclarke

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Louis Johnson - Alembic?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2007, 11:23:32 PM »
Hey, don't take my word for it. Read below...
 
 
Louis Johnson (bassist)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Hal Leonard Publishing
Website    www.louisjohnson.net
 
The Brothers Johnson's bassist, Louis Johnson ( born 13 April 1955, in Los Angeles ) is regarded as one of the best bassists of the 20th century. His signature sound is from the musicman bass which Leo Fender especially made for him to first use and promote.  
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Johnson_(bassist)