Author Topic: Mixer Help (Calling all engineers!)  (Read 426 times)

dfung60

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Mixer Help (Calling all engineers!)
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2008, 12:26:54 PM »
Hey, I still have the wimpier little brother of this mixer, the Tascam M-30.
 
The reason it doesn't make easy sense to our new millenium eyes is that this mixer is sort of a hybrid of studio and live mixers.  Back when this product was sold, Tascam was selling a lot of small 8-track recorders that recorded on 1/2 tape (open-reel 8-track, not car 8-track!).  Reading that may have just triggered flashbacks for some of us, as we remember a world with big reels of tape turning, lots of time cleaning recording heads and rollers, and where you couldn't cut and paste takes together on your laptop!  Hey, it was legendary that the Eurythmics demo tape was made on a Tascam 80-8!  You can bitch about how much ProTools costs now, but the gulf to professional recording equipment was endless just 15-20 years ago.
 
The idea behind your board was to create an environment where you could record multi-mic setups into an 8-track recorder, then mix that 8-track tape down to a stereo master without having to use a lot of external mixers or repatching.  
 
A 8-track recorder doesn't have enough tracks for you to capture each drum mike independently, so what you did back in the day was put the kick drum on one channel and mix everything else into a stereo pair.  If you had 6 drum mikes, you plug those into your regular channel strips and use the bus assignment switches to create a the stereo drum pair on an even and odd buss which you then route to two channels on your recorder (actually, doing this takes a patchbay on my board, but yours might be able to do it directly).  This is why you have that even/odd panpot.
 
After you got your tracks recorded, you use hit the line button on the channels that the recorder is connected to (usually 1-8) and you can do the stereo master mix from there.  In addition to the simple effects send on each channel strip, you can use the buss routing now as effects loops for each group in mixdown (OK, more patching going on here).  
 
The Aux busses were intended for your player's monitor mix.   My wimpier model had only one aux buss and a separate 8-track monitor mix, which I don't think yours has.
 
Above the buss 1-4 sliders, it looks like there's two sets of input controls.  I'd be curious what the legends are on the lower sets of knobs.  Perhaps those busses are stereo instead of mono (like mine).  If so, that's probably what that orange L-R button is doing.
 
The idea behind these mixers was to set the thing up so that it was effectively pre-patched close to something useful for non-pro recording.  With a traditional board you had more flexibility but had to patch every connection which meant lots of patchbays and cables (not only dollars there but brain capacity to understand what you were doing).  Doing it this way helped the basic user out in getting tracks recorded and mixed down.  This kind of mixer sort of became a dinosaur by the time the ADAT came around (early 90s) and there started to be a lot more channels around to route.  I don't think we're quiet at a point yet where artists on the radio have never used anything other that ProTools, but I think we'll probably hit that in less than 5 years.
 
Have fun.  I don't know about your mixer, but the smaller M-30 had a wooden case and wasn't something you'd travel with.
 
David Fung

811952

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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2008, 12:48:24 PM »
Ah, yes!  Thanks David!  It's been a few years..  ;)

jagerphan84

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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2008, 01:08:40 PM »
Thanks, Ken and David.  
 
David, I think I'm going to have to read your post at least 3 more times to start wrapping my head around it , but even in the first pass it was quite educational.  
 
Good eye re: the input controls over the buss 1-4 sliders.  Here's a pic:
 

 
I was thinking they might be stereo, but then I was scratching my head about the pan controls on each of these 8 channels.
 
The master levels for aux 3 and 4 (which come from busses 1-4 and 5-8, respectively) have a 'sum' button, which baffles me further.
 
Any additional wisdom would be entirely welcome!
 
Adam
(who has learned even more in this thread than in the recent 'graphite' discussion)

811952

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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2008, 05:42:03 PM »
Funny thing, on a motorcycle site I frequent (www.ridetherock.com - based in Newfoundland), a buddy of mine just put up a pic of his 8-track Tascam mate to this board.  Odd coincidence or fate?  ;)
 
John

cozmik_cowboy

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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2008, 09:42:31 PM »
Everything everyone has added is good, but I notice nobody addressed your question about the Post button.  That assigns the Aux send to pre- or post-EQ - in your intended application, that would mean you could send each input to a monitor mix either raw or with the same EQ as FOH.
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

811952

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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2008, 05:22:18 AM »
Maybe so, maybe not.  It likely might instead mean pre- or post-fader, so as to make the level of the send not affected by the fader position (useful for monitor sends), or affected by it (when feeding effects and such).  I am pretty sure I have seen both over the years.
 
It looks like you can get the service manual here:
http://www.musicparts.com/products.asp?Company=Tascam
 
John
 
(Message edited by 811952 on January 11, 2008)

adriaan

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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2008, 06:50:27 AM »
From the dank and murky recesses of the storage area affectionally known as my memory, it dawns on me that the PFL switch mutes all other channels so you'll hear just the (pre-fader?) signal of that channel - but only on the Phones output.

cozmik_cowboy

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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2008, 07:38:47 AM »
Of course, John - brain fart by me. Both are possible, but pre-/post-fader is more likely.
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

811952

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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2008, 10:01:17 AM »
Peter, these days it seems my brain farts more often than not!  
 
John

jagerphan84

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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2008, 10:32:09 AM »
Thanks John, Peter & Adriaan.
 
Adriaan, I believe you are correct about the PFL (Pre-fader listen).  This was used frequently when setting up the monitor mix at the venue I mentioned above.
 
I'll be heading out to practice in a couple hours, and I'm gonna print this thread out and bring it with me!  It's sure to come in handy.
 
And thanks, John, for spotting the service manual.  At $60, it'll have to wait until after I get the graphic EQs and another power amp or two, but I bet it'll be a worthwhile purchase.
 
Thanks again to all who posted here; without your shared knowledge I'd have spent all night just trying to figure out how to hook the darn thing up!
 
Adam

lbpesq

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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2008, 11:35:20 AM »
Boy, this thing looks complicated.  I sold off my old rack mount P.A. a few years ago and bought a Mackie 808s.  Small, powerful (dual 600 watt amps) easy to carry, onboard main and monitor eq, and DSP effects (I use reverb only).  You can split the two amps to main and monitors, or run the mains in stereo and take a monitor out to a power amp.  I love it.  Simple and portable.  When we play any situation where it isn't big enough, there invariably is already a P.A. there.
 
Bill, tgo
 
(Message edited by lbpesq on January 11, 2008)

jagerphan84

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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2008, 10:48:05 PM »
Complicated, indeed!  Fortunately, our drummer was delayed a while at work so the rest of us had some extra time to get this beast figured out.
 
We don't plan to use this PA for playing out, it's only intended for our practice space.  A PA has been provided at all our gigs so far, and if we ever need to provide our own, I'll likely pick up something similar to that Mackie.  I checked out the specs after reading your post, Bill, and it certainly looks much easier to set up (and more portable).
 
At practice earlier this evening, we found that a few of the 1/4 inputs (which the acoustic/electric guitars were plugged in to) are temperamental, most likely due to some corrosion on the contacts.  The XLR inputs all seemed to be working fine, and running the stereo XLR outs into a QSC PLX for the mains made for a great sound.  
 
Once I get my other QSC amps back from a techie friend of mine, we'll augment the mains with some monitors.  There's a graphic EQ for the mains coming my way soon (thanks, moder Dave!) which I'll likely supplement with another for the monitors once the above amps are back in my hands.
 
All in all, it's been a lot of fun getting out of my 'comfort zone' with this PA, and I can't wait for practice next week.  I think this PA stuff might be ALMOST as addictive as Alembics!
 
Adam

cozmik_cowboy

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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2008, 06:05:40 AM »
Adam, while the Mackie Bill recommends has certain pluses in the set-up and tear-down areas, don't overlook the advantages of a full-blown component PA - I was once mixing on such a system when an adorable little redhead came over & asked What are all these knobs for?  I took the time to explain, made a few other suggestions, and we've been married almost 25 years.  (Maybe not as good as a crumpet-catcher as a guitar, but when it works, it really works!)
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

crobbins

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Mixer Help (Calling all engineers!)
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2008, 12:53:48 PM »
I bought one these Soundcraft powered mixer's for my little studio. Works great.500 watts a channel..

danny_bryant

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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2008, 03:37:55 PM »
Good score!! I used to own one of those and I kick myself in the ass because I sold it. Harmon Kardon owns Soundcraft so you know the parts are durable and will have a long life. Good Job..