Soundproofing a basement

[glocke]

Ive started to finish my basement off for use as a band/media room, and am looking to make it as quiet as I can afford to.  
 
The outside walls are poured concrete that is 6-8 thick, these will be covered with insulating foam attached with furring strips, than covered in either drywall or pine paneling.  I figure since this is poured concrete, its already pretty soundproof.
 
There is a wall between the basement and garage that is filled with fibreglass insulation (R13), and drywall on the basement side.  The other side is not yet finished.  I am not sure how soundproof this is, and was thinking about shoving an extra layer of 3.5 cotton batting in there.
 
The ceiling is the biggest challenge.  How effective will R30 insulation, and than acousitc tiles be in making things quiet?
 
I know I can put cotton batting in the sealing and that will solve alot of noise problems, but that stuff costs a ton of money that I would like to put towards other things.

[bassman10096]

The degree of soundproofing needed to reduce (sorry, but electric music sound is impossible to eliminate) the noise upstairs has a lot to do with things like:  How big is the music room?  A larger area often creates an analogously large area of vibrating floor upstairs, transmitting (and, sometimes my wife swears, amplifying the sound).  Floor coverings on the floor above your music room ceiling help dampen things a lot (hard, uncovered, flexible surfaces like hardwood are bad - heavily padded, thick carpet is good).  I have R30 insulation over the drop ceiling in my basement music room.  Good, but definitely not perfect.  Got carpeted floors too - again, still not perfect.  Anyone else have different experience or thoughts?

[keith_h]

Depending upon your building construction the best way to sound proof your room is to have separate walls that are not physically coupled to the existing structure. You also want to be sure to seal any gaps where noise could escape. This means building free a standing room in your basement and insulating it.  
 
Since we cannot always do what is best you could  double sheet rock the walls and insulate between the studs. The double sheet rock adds rigidity and will help suppress sound transmission. Same for the ceiling. There are also isolators that will isolate the ceiling from the joists above.    
 
Keith

[bsee]

I don't know about the rest, but I don't think paneling is a good idea.  You might look at that Owens-Corning stuff for finishing basements.  Paneled walls will be too lively on the inside.

[robinc]

I must agree with Bob, wood paneling can reflect the sound back into the room and amplify it. Not only can it contribute to the noise factor, but it can also be the cause of unwanted echoes and result in a muddy sound. Just my $.02

[glocke]

Just to clarify a few things:
 
A completely sound proof area is beyond my means and budget.  What I am looking for is the following:
 
1) to reduce the amount of noise my neighbors may hear.  Nearest neighbor is about 50 yards away.  On the other side of the garage/basement partition.
 
2) reduce the amount of noise that comes from the upstairs (people walking, chatting, etc), and to also prevent people from hearing me practice, or to not hear me as much.  It sounds weird, but I dont like people listening to me practice.
 
Bill, how happy are you with the noise reducing abilities of the R30 ?
 
The only reason I was thinking of wood paneling is because I really, really hate painting.  Plus I do a less than stellar job of drywalling, and have many imperfections to hide.
 
 
Feel free to throw any and all ideas out.  Ive only just begun this project.

[mike1762]

I have an isolation booth in my basement studio that I soundproofed.  Soundproofing is all about mass.  My booth is 8' x 12' and floated on heavy rubber mats.  There is no physical connection to the existing structure.  The walls are 12 thick with 3 layers of sheetrock on each side and insulation in the middle.  I used 2x12s for wall studs, but if I were to do it again I would use separate sets of 2x4 studs with 2x12 top/bottom plates in order to minimize connection between the interior/exterior walls.  In order to enter the booth, you go through an airlock I constructed using 2 very heavy/solid doors.  The window between the booth and the control room also has an airlock construction using 2 layers of 3/4 glass.  You could have a small nuclear explosion in there and barely hear it!!!  Acoustical treatment is a different matter...I made my room completely dead (100% covered in acoustic foam) and use a reverb plug-in to make it sound like whatever I want.

[mike1762]

Greg
 
You put your 2nd post in as I was typing, so I'll respond again to some of your questions.  A good way to think of soundproofing is to consider the sound liquid.  You want to construct a container that will hold all the sound.  While insulation can be useful for acoustical treatments, its effect for soundproofing is minimal.  The sound will leak through the insulation/foam/etc.  To contain sound you need mass and density.  If you have solid concrete walls and sound is escaping, that means you have holes in the container (windows, doors, the wall between the basement and garage you spoke of, etc.) that need treatment.

[crobbins]

Here's a link to a site that mat answer some of your questions...
 
http://www.acoustics101.com/

[adriaan]

In-ear monitoring and an electronic drum kit might not be all that expensive after all ...

[paulman]

I did headphones and electronic drums with my band in my kitchen for 2.5 years before I purchased the house I'm currently in.  Now I have a basement I want to soundproof, how ironic (rubs chin)
 
BTW I used the Roland TD-6V for drums since they are the mid-grade and sound pretty good with the mesh head for the snare.  I play them through a BOSE Ps-1 with two sub packages now that I have a basement and can be LOUD!

[ghostyhead]

Yeah certain sized rooms (especially rooms with walls and ceilings of equal lengths will amplify sound, in the same way a speaker cabinet does)...your wife is not wrong....this time...heh heh
if you make a fake wall, angle it, to that the standing waves (sound bouncing to and from the surfaces after the attack of a note) are reduced.
you can also make diffusers (those layered wooden pieces you see on walls of studios) these break up the sound also..you can make them out of left over wood, just copy some designs of the net.
for basic cheap sound insulation:
My brother made fake walls and filled the cavity with sand, he played drums all the time in an outdoor garage close to neighbours. It worked very very well. (if you can imagine playing in between sand dunes...you get the idea...) of course for the celing,you can build your own fake ceiling as suggested above and make bass traps which are always a good idea to stop bass travelling upwards. you can do it reasonably cheaply... but the sand thing worked very well, was alot of work, and cheap.(trailor and alot of shovelling)

[bkbass]

Sorry, it double posted.
 
(Message edited by BKBASS on June 10, 2008)

[bkbass]

glocke and others,insulation fiberglass and foam is good insulating material down to 150hz. At 150hz it's like having nothing at all. Also, coincidently 150hz is where the low frequencies start to become omnidirectional. Sound as liquid is a very good example and the air lock scenario of two doors (outside type with weather seals)and double glass is the only way to fly for entry etc. Air itself is the best insulator of sound. That being said, down and dirty cheap would be to put layers of bubble wrap up in the suspended ceiling instead of fiberglass. Double up small sealed bags of sand to dampen suspended ceiling tiles. Flooring: both Home Depot and Lowes carry a 2'x2' two sides tung/two sides groove pressed wood flooring that interlocks and can be cut with a conventional circular saw. The bottom has a vapor barrier stapled to it and it raises the floor about an inch it'll protect your heavy burbur carpet and isolate the floor. Lastly,     there exists on the market sound proofing sheetrock. Just make sure you tape the seams well. Also,thin peel and stick weather proofing could be used on the studs before mounting the sheetrock. Or maybe just get a good headphone amp and phones.LOL! My 0.02 God Bless,B.

[danny_bryant]

Guys, being a basement guy and a drywall hanger I might have a dog in this race. There are several options but the most cost effective way is to fill the ceiling and walls with insulation with an R value above 13. Then you should try to use five-eights inch thick drywall. This should cut down on the sound. It always does help to put carpet down also to dampen the sound. Good luck with the basement.