Author Topic: Can Filter be changed to go to 7Khz? (Read 224 times)

81distillate · « **on:** January 28, 2008, 05:32:37 PM »

Hey guys,
This is probably for Dave or Mica. I would like to know if there is a capacitor or resistor that can be changed out to make the filter on a Distillate from 1981 go to 7khz on the top end. I know this would make minimal difference, but on another bass of mine, I have a 7Khz boost of 8 db and I use this as part of my regular tone. 6K is close, but just not quite the right amount of treble.

David Houck · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2008, 05:38:37 PM »

There's a really interesting thread on this subject referenced here.

81distillate · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2008, 06:14:46 PM »

Well, there you have it. Wow, a ton of information. I recommend everyone read this. However, when you hear Mark King, he has a very high frequency to his tone, maybe the highest Ive ever heard from any bassist. Does anyone know how Mark pulls this tone from his basses?

David Houck · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2008, 07:11:48 PM »

I think it is the case that all of Mark King's Alembics had Series electronics.

I don't know what kind of strings he uses, but obviously strings have an effect on tone. You may want to run a search of the site; someone's probably posted his string preferences before.

Personally, I have an SF-2 in my rig, which really opens up the high end.

David Houck · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2008, 07:24:35 PM »

And of course amplification and speakers have a big effect as well. I have Bag End, Eden, and Acme cabs, and the high end is significantly different among them. So you may want to look at Mark's rig as well.

jacko · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2008, 06:02:33 AM »

Mark used to use trace elliot and moved on to Ashdown (trace under a different name to be frank!). Both makes are tuned to give mark the toppy/middly sound he likes. I had a heck of a job getting a really deep thump from my trace 4x10 which is why I ended up moving it on. Any attempt to get a decent low end on the ashdown combo supplied at one of our regular gigs results in thick mud.

Graeme

terryc · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2008, 08:17:14 AM »

Mr King uses very light guage strings, a 0.90 E string usually s/steel so they are very bright and trebly.
Remember he used early JD's which although the active electronics were good at the time they were very battery hungry and compared to these days crude in there range.
Trace Elliot made a Graphic EQ pedal which you could get that high end sound but these days most modern amps have so much tonal choice you can emulate your favourite player, some pedals(ZOOM for example) actually put a patch that is named to Marcus Miller.

mica · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2008, 09:35:07 AM »

You can shift the range of the filter relatively simply. That means both the whole range moves up, so the lowest cut-off also moves up. To extend the upper limit to 7K while leaving the lower limit fixed is a bit trickier.

I can get some specific advice from dad in a few days about what components to change. Now that I think about it a little more, I probably can't get to talk to him about this until next week.

81distillate · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2008, 10:57:22 PM »

Thanks to all posters. Good info. Mica, in case you havent been told in awhile, you are truly a blessing to the bass community. I am a new Alembic owner, but Ive never seen another company care so much for its users. Any other company would just say no, or go find another bass to do what you want to do, but you guys really listen to your customers. Ive learned alot from the threads on here and Im learning that you guys are able to back it up to OUR best interests when you do have to tell us no. Finally, raising the low end on the Filter is not a bad thing as Im more concerned with my high end presence as I am getting the dubby tones offered on the lower end of the spectrum. One more thing though. It seems that when I select both pickups on my Distillate, the tone seems to go out of phase and I lose midrange and harmonics. Should this be right? If so, I could definitely use a midrange switch to put this back in as well as a phase reverse switch.

terryc · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2008, 01:28:03 AM »

81Distillate..All Alembic PU's are wired in phase, could be the trim pots need adjusting in the control cavity.

adriaan · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2008, 02:04:16 AM »

The loss of midrange and harmonics is what you get from adding the signals from two pickups so far apart - probably the best solution is to replace the pickup switch with a blend knob, which will allow you to get a whole range of in-between sounds, with varying degress of the mid-scoop.

An 81 Distillate probably has the pickup selector on the lower horn, so you might consider moving the blend closer to the rest of the controls.

I wouldn't add a phase reverse switch - it will cut mainly the low frequencies. At least that's what happens on my Yamaha SC-something guitar, which has an on/off switch for the bridge pickup, and on/off/reverse switches for the middle and neck pickups.

81distillate · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2008, 11:03:03 AM »

I agree, I thought it would be because they are so far apart. I use harmonics and of course I can get them on it with the pickups soloed, but when Im in the middle it is a very scooped sound and does sound out of phase, you know. Its not a bad sound though, I kinda like it certain things. I think maybe instead of going for the blend switch, I might have Alembic add a jazz bass pickup in the middle, so I could get the original sounds of the instrument, plus newer broader sounds with combinations of all 3 pickups that would re-introduce harmonics and mid range back into the instrument.

hieronymous · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2008, 11:31:46 AM »

I don't think it's necessarily the distance of the pickups - a Rickenbacker 4003 or Fender Jazz does the same thing, even though the neck pickup isn't right next to the neck. To me, the sound of both pickups together is classic and supposed to sound like that - deep, with the midrange scoop and clear highs.

Out of phase should be very thin sounding, with no low frequency at all, like adriaan said. If your bass really sounds like that with both pickups on, then something funny is going on.

Instead of carving up your bass, you might want to look in to getting an SF-2 Superfilter if you want to emphasize certain frequency ranges. I got one recently and am just blown away!

81distillate · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2008, 07:30:40 PM »

Thanks Hiero, I actually want the SF-2. I have never had one, so the idea of pairing it with the Distillate sounds like heaven. The only reason I described it as out of phase is because it sounds inside-out. However, now that you have described it as a Ric or Jazz, I get it. Ive been used to so many other basses that Ive owned that had both pickups close together and near the bridge, i.e., Warwick Thumb, Sadowsky Modern 5, etc. I play live musical theater every night, and since Ive been using the Alembic, Ive noticed that the tone is cutting through and sounds great, even in the middle.

dfung60 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2008, 12:55:41 AM »

A couple of thoughts...

First, you can certainly tweak filter to change the center frequency, but I doubt you'll hear much difference between 6000 and 7000Hz. Both those pitches are an octave above the highest notes on a piano and probably only a fourth apart anyway. The highest fundamental on a regular piano is only around 4200Hz. By this point your bass isn't making much signal and your speakers are almost certainly not reproducing it.

The boost filter in your other bass may be boosting a lot more than 8dB or may be centered lower than they reported to have much effect down in the 1K range where a bass has a lot of harmonic activity. You may also be hearing the differences in the electronics - perhaps the other bass's pickups have a hump that coloring the sound.

When you turn both pickups on, it's hard not to get a pretty noticeable cancellation effect no matter how things are wired. The pickups are located in different positions and hear the string's movement differently. The pickups are a fixed distance apart, but you're creating different string lengths when you fret the strings. At one fret position, the two pickups may sum in series and you'll get really high output. Move up 2 frets and one pickup may be seeing a peak while another sees a node and you'll get lower output. Move up again and now the pickups may happen to be completely out of phase and cancel themselves out. There isn't much you can do about this other than just turn one pickup off. There isn't anything short of heavy DSP processing that can fix this - it's just inherent in how the instrument works.

Maybe it's not worth sweating either of these issues.

David Fung