Author Topic: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American  (Read 1446 times)

3rd_ray

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #135 on: November 09, 2008, 02:50:41 PM »
I'd like to hear from some of the people who live in countries that have nationalized health care. I've heard bad things about it. Yeah, it's free but you'll die waiting for a doctor... etc. So what's the truth?
 
Mike

richbass939

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #136 on: November 09, 2008, 05:35:04 PM »
It was said What is unprecedented is the outright and irrational hatred that so many people have for anything associated with Bush ...  
It's interesting and very telling that Pres. Bush has been out of the campaign spotlight for quite a while now.  If even his own party thought he was doing a good (or even mediocre ) they would consider him an asset rather than a liability and try to use him to their advantage.  If the Republican strategists don't even think his association will do anything but hurt, then that's coming from his own side, not from his critics.  I think they were wise to keep him out of the picture.  However, there was so much damage done already that even his absence couldn't help all that much.  
The Republicans have shafted themselves.  They invested very heavily in a shift to the right.  Catering to some of the special interests at the right fringe of the GOP bought cheap votes for them and was successful for awhile.  This shift left many moderates (who formerly voted GOP) without a party.  Now it is catching up with them.  They don't have enough votes in the extremes (the religious right, for example) to carry the party.  Alienate the people in the middle (or don't show them anything worth voting for) and you have a losing ticket.
Personally, I'm very proud that Obama will be our president.  I'm proud that the USA has sufficiently gotten past its long history of racism to elect an African-American.  Given his ideas and what I hope he can accomplish, I would have voted for him even if he was white.  It was not a race thing for me.  I voted for someone whose ideas and character I like.  He just happened to be African-American.  Race isn't a big deal to me either way.  It still is for a lot of people, and that is unfortunate.
For those of you who will be grinding your teeth for at least the next four years, I know how you feel.
I think I hear my bass calling me.
Rich

3rd_ray

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #137 on: November 09, 2008, 07:04:12 PM »
The Republicans have shafted themselves. They invested very heavily in a shift to the right.
 
Okay, but now we're shifting just as far to the left. Don't be surprised if that doesn't work either.  
 
I'm not expecting to change any opinions. I'm just expressing my opinion as others have. Both sides should be heard.  
 
And I agree with probably everyone that this thread is getting old. I think it never should have been started here. The last thing I want to read about on the Alembic website is politics.  
 
Mike

funkyjazzjunky

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #138 on: November 10, 2008, 07:57:29 AM »
I love politics and political discussions (I cannot avoid them living in Washington, DC)
 
In this forum, we should be able to discuss any subject.  While our opinions may differ, we remain united in our love of the world's greatest basses.

new2alembic

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #139 on: November 10, 2008, 08:12:06 AM »
About the cartoon, co-creator of the Wizard of ID (the late Johnny Hart) was controversial.  I am not so sure this was meant to be a parody; I realize that it states that it is.  To some he was anti-Semitic, anti-atheist, and anti-democrat.  He often injected personal jabs into his humor.  To his followers, he was a man of tremendous Christian faith.  To his critics, he was a bigoted, hateful, narrow- minded $*##@!  His son and other family members are now the main contributors to the strip.  I stopped reading the strip years ago.  It lost it humorous originality for me.  No, I guess the true is that I have changed.  I am no longer the bigoted, hateful, narrow-minded $*##@! man that I used to be and no longer find it funny.  Wait a minute,  I haven?t read any comic strips in years.  
 
P.S. I no longer hate groups of people?I just hate individuals. lol
Carl

new2alembic

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #140 on: November 10, 2008, 08:16:03 AM »
Hey Funkyjazzjunky don't forget the 6 stringers  
(guitars that is)!

new2alembic

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #141 on: November 10, 2008, 08:21:09 AM »
Keavin calm down.  The power is only half black.
 
Carl

new2alembic

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #142 on: November 10, 2008, 08:35:57 AM »
Keavin, I hope you believe that I have no problems with Mr. Obama's race.  Black, white, bi-racial, these labels no longer matter to me. They haven't for a long time.   I have explained my position above.  I have read this thread again.  I don't see any reference to his race being a factor.  He has earned the office; we all now have to wait a see what happens.  We all should withhold judgment until at least his first 180 days.  I can't speak for anyone but Carl.  But I repeat; I don't share his ideology on government spending.  But again, George W. Bush spent money like a fiscally ultra-liberal Democrat.  Our party could not back him because he did not follow the small government philosophy that is fiscally conservative.  The president-elect will have to work real hard to make Bush look worse than he already does.  For some Obama's race may be the main issue.  I just haven't seen it stated in this forum.  For me, that speaks volume for our members.
 
Carl

keith_h

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #143 on: November 10, 2008, 10:09:40 AM »
One of the reasons I like this board is the lack of politics. If I want to debate political things I can go to any number of boards and do it.  
 
Already in this thread multiple people have felt offended by the remarks of others. We are a very diverse group of people, not only here in the US but  around the globe. None of us really knows where the others stand or what their background and experiences were that formed their opinions. Because of this it is very easy for something that you feel is innocuous to be offensive to someone else. The best way to prevent this is to just leave politics where they belong and that is somewhere else.  
 
Lastly we are guests. We need to keep in mind this is not our board. It is provided by Alembic/Wickershams and reflects on them both directly and indirectly. While I am sure they, as I, would encourage everyone to participate in their government I am also sure they would prefer it was done outside of this board.  
 
Keith

yggdrasil

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #144 on: November 10, 2008, 03:23:43 PM »
>I'd like to hear from some of the people who live in countries that have nationalized health care. I've heard bad things about it. Yeah, it's free but you'll die waiting for a doctor... etc. So what's the truth?  
 
I'm a political junkie & watched the US news constantly over the last year.
The misinformation spewed re. our health care system was staggering.
 
Just a few anecdotal observations(not exhaustive) :
 
1)we can choose whatever doctor we wish; there is no bureaucrat standing between a patient & a doctor.
 
2)We gripe about waiting lists up here, but any friends I have had with anything serious (MS & cancer)received MRIs & treatment immediately. I suppose a more elective procedure might be in queue, but I can't say for sure, since I have no personal experience of such. My wife & I both get any tests ordered by our doctors within a reasonable length of time, although neither of us have any health issues to date.
 
Access, and speed of access, is determined by health considerations, not how fat your wallet is.
 
And no one is rendered homeless due to a serious illness.
 
2)even if we had such waiting lists as those mischaracterized south of the border, at least everyone would get treatment - the longest waiting period is the one with no treatment at all at the end.
 
Sometimes we are short of certain facilities & our government health system pays to take a patient to a border city in the US for MRIs, or whatever. Of course, no one points out that the  reason MRIs in Buffalo are available to Torontonians is because about 30% of Buffalonians can't afford them and simply go without.
 
It's rather obscene.
 
3) an  friend of mine with American insurance was dying of cancer in her early 30s. When I went to visit her, she'd be poring over pages & pages of itemized items - she had to confirm this bedpan, that box of kleenex, etc. for the insurance claim.
I repeat, she was dying of cancer.
 
Again: obscene.
 
4) a woman in the 2nd presidential debate asked Obama & McCain if they thought the profit motive had any place in health care - they both deftly answered a different question, avoiding the topic completely. But that question contained the kernel of the problem - health considerations should be the only ones when it comes to who gets what health care & when. And profit & the bloated bureaucracy ( about 10X the number of paper pushers in a HMO as in a comparably sized Canadian health department)take valuable dollars from actual health care.
A major factor is that we have one payer (through the government) & no profit. I believe it can't be done through a spiderweb of private, for-profit corporations. It costs a lot less to deliver health services once profit & private insurance are removed from the equation.
 
I'm an entrepreneur who has always owned & run his own business, certainly not a socialist,but I agree with my fellow Canadians when they specify our health care system as the last program they would give up.
 
Frank in Toronto
 
(Message edited by Yggdrasil on November 10, 2008)
 
(Message edited by Yggdrasil on November 11, 2008)

David Houck

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #145 on: November 10, 2008, 04:21:47 PM »
Ok, here's what I think.
 
Mica loves this community; she loves each one of us, and she loves building instruments for us.  She delights in taking pictures of instruments in progress and posting them for our enjoyment; just as she delights in trying to help us out when our instruments have problems.
 
I became moderator because Mica asked me.  However, I have remained moderator because you guys have allowed me that privilege.  This forum is part and parcel of the whole idea of Alembic.  That you guys are happy with this forum is important to Mica; that's why she wanted a moderator, and that's why she puts so much of her time into our board.  This is the Alembic community, and we wish it to be as widely inclusive as possible.  We wish for this place to be as warm and welcoming as possible.
 
My view of this thread is reflected in the posting guidelines; if you haven't read the posting guidelines yet, please do so now.  If you have read them, the relevant passage is as follows.
 
Avoid using language that others may find offensive. Other people will find offensive, remarks that are degrading sexually, that are ethnically or racially oriented, that are patently political, or that may present some particular religious view.
 
It seem to me to be the case that when you make negative remarks about a political position that others holds dear, then there will be at least some of that group who will be offended, or hurt, or disgusted, or thinking that perhaps there is some other place where, or group of people with whom, they would rather be spending their time right now.
 
And making people uncomfortable with the Alembic forum is not what we are about, however unintended that may be.
 
While I have received email and phone calls about this thread, I am most concerned about some whom I will not hear from.  There will be some who, after reading some of the comments in this thread, may decide that this community no longer feels the same for them.  We all have busy lives, and we make decisions on how to prioritize our time.  Where we chose to spend our time, whether it's an internet forum, a bar, a restaurant, a bookstore, or a music store, is often influenced on how comfortable we feel there; how we feel about the people we are around.  All of us are different; and our decision making processes are different.  It's where each of us is right now after a lifetime of experiences.  Again, in my view, this place works best for all of us as a community when it is held as a refuge for all of us.
 
Again, you guys have allowed me to be your moderator.  As this place and you guys are so important to Mica, it seems self-evident to me that if she felt that you were not happy here because of the decisions I've made as moderator, then clearly I would no longer be moderator.
 
While I find it wholly understandable that people on both sides of the election would have highly emotional reactions to the election, and while I find it wholly understandable that some might want to express those feelings here, my view is reflected in the posting guidelines.  I do not believe that I have some infallible knowledge about how internet forums should be run; and I think that reasonable people could conclude that my position on the matter is wrong.
 
However, you guys have for whatever reason allowed me to be your moderator; and given that, it does seem that you as a group have deigned to let me have a little say-so about things from time to time.
 
Thus in my role as moderator I do most respectfully request that this thread and subject matter be herewith laid to rest.
 
Thank you for your patience with me and for your understanding that I am just trying to do what Susan, Mica, and you as a group would want me to do.
 
David