Author Topic: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American  (Read 1559 times)

hydrargyrum

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2008, 07:15:50 PM »
That sounds like an idea I would definitely get behind Charles.  I don't think anyone wants to strangle business, as much as close the income gap sot that 5% of our country doesn't control 95% of the wealth.
 
Okay, I think I have said too much already on what is a polite forum.  I apologize if my remarks offend anyone, and hope to presume that on other less contentious topics, we might have as free and open a discourse before as before I was foolish enough to expose my politics.  My sincere and best wishes to every person on this forum who loves their country enough to be so concerned regarding its future.

dannobasso

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2008, 07:57:43 PM »
Flat tax baby! Everybody pays the same percentage. Here in Jersey in the days of Florio, taxes on business went up, sales tax went up, tolls went up and  environmental related fees on things like waste oil etc. went up. Jobs left for less constricting areas of the country. I lost 2 jobs in the manufacturing sector during that stretch. I now teach high school academics to emotionally-behaviorally challenged students from at-risk environments. (ie. the kids that get kicked out of your school because they can't figure out how to teach them and get them to behave because of the  divorce, substance abuse, violence, low income environments that fostered the dysfunctional survival skills of anti-social actions). Overcoming challenges of this sort takes a huge amount of hard work, dedication, attention to detail, a bit of compassion and a whole lot of humor. Now on the up side I'm tenured and not likely to be laid off in a downturning economy. I'll do my part by trying to prepare these kids to get and keep a job to pay the taxes that will fund the social security of fine folks like me and you. Those of you who continue to work hard, produce and support the economy, I hope you may be rewarded with a new (or new to you) Alembic very soon. Ask not what your country can do for you......(riffs from Cult of Personality here).. the only thing we have to fear is.....fear itself.......

olieoliver

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2008, 08:03:02 PM »
Me thinks Bill (tgo) is on to something here. Who better to trim the excess from all those Putzs in DC than a Mohel!  
 http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/
 
OO
(Make that Ouch Ouch just thinking about that!)

mike1762

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2008, 08:50:23 PM »
I'm on Danno's (or Crgaston's) team.  I have NO problem paying my fair share of taxes.  But our progressive tax system penalizes individuals for being successful (I can't speak to corporate taxes).  This is a fun thread!!!

ajdover

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2008, 08:56:15 PM »
I am a registered Republican.  I voted for McCain/Palin.
 
This being said ..
 
I'm looking forward to seeing what's going to happen in the next four years.  Obama promised much - now it's time to deliver.  I'm not optimistic for any number of reasons.
 
The Democrats control both houses of our congress.  They control the executive branch of our government.  If they can't fix the very real problems we face in four years, something is seriously wrong.  Obama is viewed by some friends of mine as a miracle worker.  I'll be watching to see if in fact he works miracles.  Again, I'm not optimistic but will be pleasantly surprised if he indeed works them.  Getting elected is one thing; dealing with real issues is another.
 
Alan

Bradley Young

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #95 on: November 06, 2008, 09:39:09 PM »
Alan,
 
I'm with you: I hope, sincerely, that Obama can put action to the beautiful rhetoric.  If they can do something to return America to the shining city on a hill, then I'll certainly be glad for it.
 
I had other things to say, but got bored.  Mostly about taxes, and you don't care anyways.
 
Anyhoo, congratulations to President-Elect Obama and Vice-President-Elect Biden.
 
And I'm proud to be an American, as I was Nov. 3, and for several days prior to that (that, my friends, was a British Understatement).
 
Bradley

dannobasso

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #96 on: November 07, 2008, 07:24:36 AM »
I'm always proud to be an honest, forthright, hardworking, tax paying, contributer to society who espouses the conservative ideology that brought my father through the depression, through WW2 (enlisted in the Navy at 17), raised a family of 6 with his wife of 49 years, througfh the challenges of the 60's, 70's 80's, 90's and now the 2000'nds. (where he lost a huge chunk of change when the bailout banking debacle affected the markets).  
 
Whatever the future has to hold for the country, I hope that those in the positions of power in government are guided by wisdom and divine inspiration. Time will tell if The One is really THE One. Until the verdict is in, please keep working hard to be good citizens, continue to take care of yourself, your family and loved ones, (if that means motorcycles, beer and basses so be it) and make the changes you need to make to prosper in uncertain situations. As I wrote to a board member today , Though we are in for some challenging times, I feel that the best of us will do the best that is in us.  
 
And on that note, please men and women of the Alembic family, make the sacrifices necessary to order a new bass or guitar from the Wickershams this year. (those who have had customs made within the last fiscal year and are currently waiting delivery are exempt from this but it would be great if you could do it again) I don't believe they started my 10 yet so consider me on active duty per my marching order. I'm sure Alan can give us a fusion recipe for the MRE's we will need to get through...... (no fruit please, not a big fan of it with the carne! ie pineapple with the Spam etc. )

jet_powers

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #97 on: November 07, 2008, 07:43:13 AM »
When does exorbitant wealth become greed? The average CEO of a fortune 500 company made 14.2 million dollars in 2007.
 
When you make that kind of cake off the backs of the people, what's wrong with giving some of it back to the people? I'm not some sort of a socialist or communist, but how much does one need to survive? How many lifetimes can one live with that kind of money?
 
-JP

3rd_ray

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #98 on: November 07, 2008, 08:07:10 AM »
Right on Danno! I'm waiting on a MK Deluxe right now, but I'm also watching the monthly specials for my next bass.  
 
Mike

mike1762

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #99 on: November 07, 2008, 08:24:57 AM »
I grew up in a blue collar working class family and tend to be an uncompassionate liberal when it comes to social issues (do what you want, but suffer the consequences of your decisions).  Financially I'm more conservative.  I agree with John that the top brass of PUBLIC companies should not be able to pillage the coffers.  However, there is NOTHING wrong with pursuing and retaining wealth.  Who would take the personal and financial risks of starting a new business without that carrot at the end of the stick?

new2alembic

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #100 on: November 07, 2008, 09:09:20 AM »
I am huge not huge fan of Karl Rove or his tactics; however, I saw him interviewed this week (post-election).  He did not bash Obama.  In fact, he stated that Obama ran a clean, well disciplined campaign.  He had been predicting a McCain defeat for some time.  It doesn?t matter if you like Karl or not, he is a brilliant strategist.  He believes in winning by any means necessary.  Let's face it folks, most politicians are very ambitious people.  You have to possess somewhat of an ego and ambition to put yourself out there like that.  So, for a politician that wants to win Karl is your guy.  The most interesting point that Karl made during the interview was this.  He stated that most presidential candidates are clueless to the realities of the job.  They make hundreds of promises to millions of people.  Only the winner gets to face the reality of the position.  According to Karl, Mr. Obama will have the shock of his life when he receives his first classified intelligence briefing.  You can make all the promises in the world (with good and honest intentions), but it all gets trumped by national security.  There are things in place that the average person, including elected officials, are clueless about.  These things are there to keep this country safe and somewhat stable.  The United States in no different than any other developed country in this regard.  There are agencies at work that presidential candidates don't know exist.  They have their jobs to do.  And just like the men and women of the military, I appreciate their service and dedication.  Many of these folks risk their lives every day for our freedoms.  
 So candidates may promise many things, but some things are in place for a reason.  These things are unchangeable, even by the Commander-in Chief. This is not a conspiracy theory.  Mr. Rove should know, he has been there and done that.  He did not go into a whole lot of detail, but let's just say, there are checks and balances outside of the Executive, Legislative and Judiciary Branch.  On a different note, I was silenced years ago on the issue of social welfare.  I believed just about everything Mr. Reagan told us.  Okay I was na?ve.  Some of you may remember the reference he made to the Chicago welfare queen that bilked the government out of $150,000.  The following information was cited from another source: (He cited a Chicago Welfare Queen who had ripped off $150,000 from the government, using 80 aliases, 30 addresses, a dozen social security cards, and four fictional dead husbands. The country was outraged; Reagan dutifully promised to roll back welfare; and ever since, the Welfare Queen driving her Welfare Cadillac has become permanently lodged in American political folklore.  
 
Unfortunately, he would never provide references or sources and it seems that it wasn't really true. The media searched for this welfare cheat in the hopes of interviewing her, and discovered that she didn't even exist. As a bit of class warfare, however, it was brilliant. It diverted public attention from insider traders in their limousines to Welfare Queens in their Cadillacs, even though the former were stealing thousands of times more from the American people than the latter. Just one example of the cost of white collar crime would become apparent a few years later, when President Bush bailed out the Savings & Loans industry with $500 billion of the taxpayer's money -- enough to fund 20 years of federal AFDC. )  
Questions of class warfare aside, there is no evidence that there is a significant problem with welfare cheating. In 1991 less than 5 percent of all welfare benefits went to persons who were not entitled to them, and this figure includes errors committed by the welfare agency. (1)  
 
Nor are people getting rich off welfare. The two largest welfare programs are Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and food stamps. In 1992, the average yearly AFDC family payment was $4,572, and food stamps for a family of three averaged $2,469, for a total of $7,041. (2) In that year, the poverty level for a mother with two children was $11,186. (3) Thus, these two programs paid only 63 percent of the poverty level, and 74 percent of a minimum wage job. There are other welfare programs, of course, but they either pay a minuscule fraction of these two programs, or, if larger, are collected by only a small percentage of welfare recipients. The typical welfare recipient remains among the poorest members of society.?
 I was asked to serve on a taskforce during the nineties to develop a ?Welfare to Work initiative for our community?I had not moved back home to KY yet.  Our taskforce spent six months researching the state and national welfare programs.  No offense to anyone, but I had always assumed that most welfare recipients were black females.  At that time 1993, 70 percent of the recipients were white families, I couldn?t believe it.  I never viewed myself as racist up to that point.  But the media, Hollywood, and my social circles had always given me that impression; it was a stereotype that I bought in to.  I heard it so much that I thought it was a fact.  I also thought most were lazy black females that had a multiple children.   Keep in mind, I had always personally known some lazy white males and females with multiple children, some in my own family.  I was just ignorant to the facts.  I worked with men, women, black, white, Hispanic and Asian.  There were politicians, IT professionals, doctors, electricians, teachers, factory works, plumbers, lawyers, social workers and preachers on this taskforce?30 of us in all.  We worked with local, state, and national level professionals daily.  We all came away with a better understanding of the broken system.  Most of the folks we interviewed by phone and in person wanted to be self sufficient.  
 Most stated that it was only expected to be  very temporary.  But too many became enslaved into the system because they could not afford adequate childcare, transportation or insurance.  I now know that I was an ignorant racist.  I really felt that white males were smarter than white females.  We had always trumped them in math, science, and any class that required hard thinking and problem solving.  I held the same negative views of blacks academically.  I always thought black males were superior athletically.  But then I realized there were very few females back then in any of my math and science classes, but those that were there usually got very high marks.  I didn?t go to school with any blacks.  So I really didn?t have an accurate way to base my views.  They were based on my bias and ignorance.  I can now say that I am a recovering racist.  Just like an alcoholic, I don?t know if I will ever be cured.  But I have been willing for over 15 years to work on it.  My SAT was 1340 and A?s came pretty easy, but I was very ignorant to many facts.  It seems that the president ?elect has his work cut out for him.  At this point, the people have spoken, I will give  him my full support until he proves he doesn?t deserve it.   I don?t base my views of him on his race.  After all, he is half-white?just kidding.  Really, I am just kidding!  If he can pattern his policies on the values he was raised with, he will prove that the conservative ideology is what got him where he is.  He and his wife did not rely on hand outs to get where they are.  He states that his grandparents worked hard to put him through school.  He and Michelle worked their butts off to get the best education.  They did not rely on this broken system.  The Democrats for years have preached FDRs  New Deal and Johnson?s  Great Society.    Hard work and education pays off.  The Obamas are living proof of this.  We need big business; they are the stimulus for economic growth.  We cannot over tax them or force them oversees so they can remain competitive.  Capitalism works?GW messed up.  He forgot about small government.  He forgot about cutting government spending.  He and Congress over the past 8 years, not two, have almost bankrupted this country.  Once Obama gets his briefing, we can see what tunes he will sing to us.  Maybe, just maybe, he can see the mistakes of others and  provide the type of leadership that will start a recovery.  National security is still priority number one.  I  won't rant anymore today...I promise!
 
Carl

hydrargyrum

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #101 on: November 07, 2008, 09:57:31 AM »
That's some interesting insight to the welfare system Carl.
 
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on November 07, 2008)

new2alembic

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2008, 10:40:24 AM »
It is amazing what months of research and fact finding can do.  I gained a lot of knowledge, all for the better I guess.  I hope this information will help others as much as it has helped me to better understand people..all people.
 
Carl

3rd_ray

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #103 on: November 07, 2008, 12:00:05 PM »
Carl, I agree with most of what you wrote. Personally, I never thought that the problem with welfare was people who cheat. You have to put in a lot of effort to cheat the system and you only get a little bit out for that effort. It?s easier to sell drugs and you?ll make more money. The problem with welfare is that it creates a dependent class and it replaces fathers with a check from the government. That?s a theory, and I have no idea how realistic it is, but it seems to be true.  
 
I also agree that tax dollars used for welfare programs are only a small part of the overall budget, so that?s not an issue for me either. I would much rather see tax dollars go to the poor than go to government bureaucrats, CEO?s, or any other rich people (including me, and I?m not even close to being rich). I won?t be losing any sleep if Warren Buffett?s tax rate goes up.  
 
But the problem with raising taxes is competition (I think you get this, but I?m writing it for others). If our corporate tax rates are higher than other countries, then more jobs are likely to be created in those other countries instead of ours. If we want to put a cap on CEO pay or slap a windfall profit tax on the oil companies, who do we trust to do that and how much is too much? It may seem simple, but there are unintended consequences that can easily make us regret messing with it.  
 
Our system obviously isn?t perfect, but our country has created more wealth for more people than any other country ever. We need to be careful about what we do to keep it that way.  
 
Mike

Bradley Young

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Re: Tonight I'm Proud To Be An American
« Reply #104 on: November 07, 2008, 12:22:35 PM »
Carl,
 
I appreciate the insights.
 
I will say that the part that I look forward to most in an Obama presidency will be him as a role model for the youth of America: there are no upper limits, regardless of where you come from.  I hope that it will encourage some of the youth of America, who currently idealize sports stars, rappers and thugs (wait... I repeat myself) to aim higher, get an education, form meaningful long term marriages, and end the disastrous cycle of parental absenteeism.
 
Barack Obama epitomizes these values (by all indications, a smart, educated family man).