Author Topic: High end sound quality for guitar? (Read 110 times)

art · « **on:** February 27, 2008, 03:49:50 PM »

I am a guitar player(Tribute) and new to these boards. I play straight into an amplifier (Allesandro/Rivera)but I am wondering if sound quality for guitars is like home audio: high end systems are all component based, and almost always sound better than a one-box system. I am thinking about moving to a component system, but am not sure I know what the issues and questions are. Most importantly, if done right, is the sound quality going to be noticeably better?

I was thinking about the Hardtruckers JG1, a QSC or Yamaha power amp, and an Alembic F1X pre-amp(I see this generally advertised as a bass amp: any reason not to use it for guitar?) I play mostly Dead-type music. I have no idea what to do about reverb.

Are component inter-connect cables an issue? How about speaker wire? I'm not really sure where to start. To my ears, most guitar amplifiers are like low or mid-fi, compared to a high end home audio system. Should I not be thinking in those terms?

Any guidance you can give me will be most appreciated. If I haven't given enough information, I apologize, and will be glad to fill in the blanks.

lbpesq · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2008, 05:40:27 PM »

Jim:

Welcome to the club! Always nice to have another 6 stringer around here (the club is decidedly bass heavy), especially another attorney! I also play a lot of dead-type music, so I prefer a clean tone.

I have several guitars, including a custom Further, a 1976 Series 1 and a 1977 Series 1 12 string. I usually play through a Mesa Boogie, either a Mark IIC+ head with a 2x12 Earcandy Cab with Hempcone speakers (Tone Tubby and JBL reconed K120), a Mark III combo and Theil bottom with EVs, or a 60's Blackface Pro Reverb (the Further seems to really like the Fender). Lately I've been experimenting with putting together a rack system. I don't know if it will sound any better, but I expect it to be a little more versatile by being more adaptable to the size necessary for any particular gig. I'm also setting it up to run in stereo so I can get a fuller sound and/or separate two cabs to spread the sound out and ensure the other guys in the band can hear me.

As for a pre-amp, I'm using an Alembic F-2B. From what I've read, the F-2B will give more of a tube sound than the F-1X - something that is usually more desirable for guitar. I'm running it into a Mesa 50/50 stereo power amp (50 watts per side) If you want more power, Mesa also makes the 2:90 - 90 watts per side. Each channel will then power a separate 2x12 cab, or I can run each channel into one side of the 2x12 (I had the cabs wired for this option). I'm also using an Alembic SF-2 Superfilter (a wonderful piece of equipment for tone shaping) and a BBE Sonic Maximizer. As for reverb, I'm currently using a Lexicon unit that cost about $200. It is fine for my purposes for now. Once I get the whole thing together and spend some time on it, if I really like it I may upgrade the reverb. The finest rack reverb (based on my research) is the Demeter Real Tube Reverb. It uses real springs and sells for around $700 as I recall.

As for the Hardtruckers, IMHO they are trading on the Dead name and are way overpriced. I've also heard some not very flattering info about their hemp board version. I hope this helps. I'm sure there will be others around here shortly to offer ideas. This is an extremely knowledgeable and helpful community in this forum.

Bill, the guitar one

art · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2008, 04:33:59 AM »

Thanks, Bill. By the way, I saw the pictures of your Further before I posted and was knocked out by it. A thing of beauty is a joy forever!

gtrguy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2008, 10:03:52 AM »

Mesa makes a Triaxis (sp?) that is kinda cool. My thinking after 40 years of playing is that the amp is like a whole instrument on it's own and you need to find one or more that you like the sound of. Back in the 70's I had a Sunn Colseium (sp?) lead that was billed as having no sound coloration except what your guitar put out and it sounded like crap. Tubes naturally color sound, usually for the better. I now run Mesa combos or a Zinky open back combo and love them. I have Alembic preamps but don't really like them for guitar. Again, they are just the front end preamp right out of a Fender tube design from the 60's, which was a great classic design.

At least, if you buy a combo amp you know the parts in it were voiced to work togeather.

However, for bass I use componets because a combo is so heavy.

My .02 cents, Dave

jazzyvee · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2008, 11:07:42 AM »

I've moved to a component system for bass in recent years and have been thinking about whether a similar idea for a guitar system would be practical and if any of my bass gear would be interchangeable.

But not done anything about it really as at the moment I love the sound of my orion guitar in my Fender Twin Amp. Also I expect it to be an expensive move.
I will be watching this thread with interest.

Jazzyvee

0vid · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2008, 11:56:24 AM »

I use to run a 12 U guitar rack in my studio that comprised:

Triaxis, JMP 1, Quadraverb Q20, 2 X AKAI MB76 midi controlled mixers, AKAI PEQ6 midi controlled EQ, Digital Music Corp System MIX Plus, DMC GCX switcher, my power amp was a Marshall EL34 50/50 and it fed a pair of marshall cabs with Celestion GT12/75. It was all controlled with a DMC ground control.

I could plug in pedals or other efx in series or parallel and could pretty much set up almost an kind of sound. It was after all meant to be versatile in the studio.

I dealt with all kinds of guitarists from HM to punk to jazz and ran then through this rack. It was a system I liked a lot. Eventually I found after years and years of tweaking settings &presets, that I gravitated towards the Triaxis run clean, feeding the power amp either clean or full out for that spongy power amp distortion that you cannot get from preamps alone.

I wish I still have that rack, I still have some bits but sold the triaxis, JMP1 and marshall power amp. I could run the set up at full blast at 3 in the morning in my old studio, but now I can't in this new place until my new studio is finished. It was nice to have all that flexibility. Will I build a new rack? Maybe. But as you get older your need for distortion drops.....in life and in guitar haha.

For guitar now I use a Trace Elliot V type via a crossover, or a F1-X. The Alembic has a built in crossover, so if you feed the low out and set the crossover at 3.2KHz or thereabout you have instant speaker simulator. I run various fuzz boxes, a rat, a couple of TS808s and a custom one that was made for me to get a VOX distortion sound. I run it all direct. I don't gig on guitar anymore, 99% of my gigs are on bass. But when I did I ran the set up via a Carver power amp, and used the full range output. I do a lot of guitar work in the studio but I do miss a tube power amp somewhat but not enough to go get one now.

elwoodblue · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2008, 12:16:02 PM »

my staple presently is a groove tubes trio preamp with a Lexicon Mx400 for reverb...then through swart and stewart amps for power...
I've been so happy with the GT Trio.(two is even better).
oh yeah...I added a hhb tube compressor and that has reeally helped bring out the subtlties.

cheers

elwoodblue · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2008, 11:09:55 PM »

I figured this would be a good place to ask the other giutarists if any of you have tried the 75th anniversary celestions (30 watts heavy magnet if I remember right) ...they are very responsive and substantial when driven.

I think warren haynes uses them now.I discovered them when I was playing through an open back divided by 13 cab...