Author Topic: Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp  (Read 520 times)

Glynn

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« on: February 01, 2011, 09:32:01 AM »
Just curious as to whether people boost their bass on the bass guitar or on the amp. My Orion needs the bass tone pot up nearly full for most stuff - do others put up the amp bass level and turn guitar bass pot down? I find that the bass tone control on the guitar boosts quite dramatically in the very last bit which I don't need to go to.  I have the view that it probably doesn't matter but should you give the max tone signal from the bass guitar before it hits the amp?

tmoney61092

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 09:55:49 AM »
i turn the bass on my Gibson Victory Artist bass up all the way and then have the bass on my GK 1001RB at around the 1 o'clock postion which feeds into my 1x15. i feel like if i boost on my bass instead of my amp it comes through a lot more clear. hope that helped
 
~Taylor

artswork99

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2011, 09:59:44 AM »
Agree with the max tone out of the bass as long as you don't overdrive the preamp.  Shouldn't really matter but there may be some reasons as the signal may distort in some rigs capacity to handle the input signal.  A well balanced organization ;)

bsee

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2011, 06:30:24 PM »
All bass tone controls aren't created equal. That's a catch-all description for what is usually a shelving-type EQ control that affects frequencies below a certain level. There's no one standard for what the frequency will be. There's also no guarantee that the slope of the curve around the target frequency will be the same from control to control.  
 
With a semi-parametric EQ, one can not only set the boost/cut level, but can also set the frequency. A fully parametric EQ will also be able to set the slope. If you don't have one of these, your control will work at whatever frequency the designers thought would be appropriate. These parameters matter to the impact of spinning that tone dial. Add to this that the bass control on some amps doesn't behave independently. One example of this is the Fender tone stack found in the Alembic preamps among others. In these configurations, the bass, mid and treble controls all have an affect beyond their primary range.
 
Now, in addition to considering the quality of the components involved, you also need to consider what the tone control you're tweaking is intended to do. The easiest way to decide what to adjust is to try it and, if it sounds good, the settings you made are fine.
 
Personally, for performance versatility, I would prefer to have a setting on my amp that doesn't require a lot of adjustment on the bass. That way, if I need to tweak something during a set, I can probably get what I am looking for without going back to the amp. I wouldn't set my bass control to a default of ten on the bass, because then where do you go if you need a little more? Nigel wouldn't approve unless your Orion bass knob goes to eleven.

2400wattman

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 12:32:20 AM »
I start with all things flat. Tires, beer, women and e.q.'s. I then make adjustments(on the bass first, then the amp which is what you want to be heard in the p.a. NOT the amp.) for THE room my band is playing in.
 The Epic/Orion preamp is a stout system on the low end so, I'm thinking since you're boosting as much as you are you would probably want to raise the the gain of the preamp (by way of the internal trim pot) which would give you more headroom and make it to where you would'nt need to boost so much.
 However be careful not to boost the trim pot too much as you can easily distort the front end of your amp, even with a pad switch engaged!
 As I stated earlier it's very stout on the low end.
Good luck with it and let us know how it turns out.

terryc

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 02:57:16 AM »
2400
flat tires...how do you get to the gig?
flat beer...do take your own CO2??
flat women...silicone?????
LOL
As for the other..filters all open and use BOSS ME50B, Zoom B1U and Bass driver pedal as well amp for tones

88persuader

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 03:52:23 AM »
I always go to the amp 1st to get what I'm looking for with the bass set flat, regardless of bass. Then as bsee said I can then tweak my tone anytime during a performance and don't need to run back to the amp to do it.

sonicus

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 06:59:22 AM »
There are always variables to my aproach ; nothing is written in stone in my book  .  Many times with a 2 pickup Bass my instrument settings start  with 70% bridge pickup, 30% neck pickup with  instrument filters wide open ; all wide open 0 cut , CVQ wide open. Next ; I fit my sound into the Room mostly with outboard EQ attenuation. The room has the curves but I try to supply the  
correct angles to make it right ! LOL ______

mario_farufyno

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 03:36:10 AM »
The real chalenge is to know how to get a flat sound from your Amp. Amplifiers use to really colour your tone, even with their tone controls set at zero or middle position (depending if they are passive or active controls).
 
With that in mind, how can you expect to fine tune your tone on Bass?
 
My strategy was to get used to my bass tone on studio's reference monitors, suposely more close to a true (uncolored) reference, and try to match that tone with my Amp first of all. This can help compensate any changes due to placement or gear, while keeping the tone coming out from my Bass real.
 
Never got any difficult to get a consistent Tone on any venue since then, never got angry with soundman again either. Now I know my tone in PA or Recorder will be the same I am hearing in front of my Amp's cabinet (fairly close at least).
 
By the way, I've never felt the need to real push any extra bass on instrument. Changing PU balance slightly towards front PU usualy do the trick.
Not just a bass, this is an Alembic!

mario_farufyno

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 03:40:37 AM »
Other way to develop a truer tone mind scheme is to get used to hear your Bass raw sound on your favourite sound system. You can record it or use any karaoke/auxiliar input, the idea is to hear your tone in the very same gear you are used to hear other bassist's tone (hearing records they made).  
 
That way you are ready to try equalizing your Amp's tone to match how your bass tone should really sounds like. And then you finally can fine tune your tone to match any tone you like (easy on Alembic).
Not just a bass, this is an Alembic!

sonicus

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 04:25:14 AM »
To REALLY know what your response is and what isFLAT you need an RTA or  REAL TIME ANALYZER.      
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Time_Analyzer

sonicus

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2011, 08:32:20 AM »
At the last recent AES Convention   ( Audio Engineering Society) that I attended In San Francisco last October the nice folks at Gold Line showed me their latest line of new gear /RTA/ software and interfacing  and handy tools .  Things have really become small and compact since my first experience in school with RTA's in the mid 1970's.  It's amazing.
 
 
   http://www.gold-line.com/analyzer.htm
 
               Sonic Regards.

mario_farufyno

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 09:56:25 AM »
With a RTA you can feed your Amp with Pink Noise and knows exactly how Amp, Cabinet and Room can change your Tone (or how they filter all frequencies passing trough it). Important to remember is that it didn't means that once you compensate this with your amp's Tone controls, it will keep always Flat. If you change your position in room (or play in another place, change Cabs and Cables or use an other Amp), you should measure it all over again.
 
But this is the only way to really know exactly what is going on. My tip was just an average man's way to get closer to it even if you don't have any extra gear or knowledge (and regardless what equipement you'll have to use at your Gig).
 
Thanks for info Sonicus!
Not just a bass, this is an Alembic!

Glynn

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 10:45:06 AM »
Wow...what a fantastic lot of replies.  And I thought RTA was a Road Traffic Accident!  Many thanks ....I will report back.

sonicus

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Using Bass Tone control - Guitar or Amp
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 10:57:30 AM »
Mario ,you are welcome .  You are correct, there are so many variables in the equation . I think your method or a system of awareness of what the sound is @ a certain given reference benchmark and how it is changing with in the variables of other instruments room/location ,  validates the methods effectiveness. It can be any method that works for the individual. There can be many ways that work for various individuals. It's Music  with a capital  M  ; we express our selves and play a Movie for our ears. I love to learn how  others do it , Personally I really like to use my intuition and ears, An RTA will tell you what Flat is, but then  Flat might not be what one  might really   care about.  I usually end up far from Flat.   Like I wrote before ; MY book is not written in stone.   The main thing is to have FUN and sometimes my inner GEEK shows up in the process.  
 
         Sonic Regards____________