Author Topic: Q switch  (Read 1509 times)

mike1762

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1048
Q switch
« on: March 23, 2008, 07:57:42 PM »
I want to make sure I fully understand the Q switch and the function of the frequency pot.  Mica's post re this says ...The frequency control adjusts a low-pass filter tunable from about 350Hz - 6KHz. Where you tune the filter is the cutoff frequency. Only frequencies below the cutoff frequency are passed...When the Q switch is on, it boosts the cutoff frequency of the filter by about 8dB....  So if I understand correctly, the filter pot sets a frequency that will either be boosted by 8dB (Q on) or set the point of a low-pass shelf (Q off).  Does this mean that I have a 6KHz shelf in effect when running my bass flat with the Q switch off?  But with the Q switch on, I have no low-pass shelf (but I am boosting something between 350-6000Hz)?  Thanks.

keurosix

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 453
Q switch
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 04:03:32 AM »
Not exactly. You always have a low-pass filter active. You would have a 6kHz shelf if the filter was turned up all the way clockwise (at 10). All frequencies below this point are passed through. At the dialed in 6kHz frequency, you can leave it flat with no boost 0 db no Q, or boost it with the Q switch active. What you get is a peak at the selected frequency, or the top of the low-pass filter. This enhances the tonal effect and can produce the traditional wahwah sound (as you rotate the filter control and move the top of the low pass), or as I like to call it, the vocal quality of the sound. As you dial the filter anticlockwise, you lower the top of the low pass, and can get a darker sound. The Q switch will effect the top frequency of the filter wherever it is set. They work together. I take it you are asking about your Spoiler circuit with a 2 position Q switch? Other circuits for different models have 3 position switches (Series 1) or a variable pot (Series 2), for even more flexibility. Some models don't have a Q switch, and leave it fixed. I hope this helps your understanding.
Kris

mike1762

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1048
Q switch
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 05:35:17 AM »
Thanks for your response.  Yes, I'm specifically asking about the circuitry of a Spoiler.  It sounds great just noodling around, but I'm having some problems getting it to sit in the mix when recording.  I think it's the exaggerated smile frequency response that is causing me problems (I have always played/recorded with a fair amount of midrange, but if thoses frequencies were never there to begin with...).  OK, let me see if I got this right: The filter pot sets the roll-off point of a low pass filter.  With the Q off, it's a simple shelf parametric.  With the Q on there is a 8dB boost (narrow Q) prior to the roll-off.  Is that right?  I just bought a SC Standard that should be here any day now, how does the signature electronics differ?  Thanks again.

FC Bass

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2327
Q switch
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 06:34:03 AM »
On the SC you'll have a filter + Q-switch for each pickup and a pan pot instead of a pickup selector.
Damaged Justice, Dutch 'tallica tribute: Facebook, Youtube

'83 Spoiler
'88 Spoiler
'99 Orion 5 fretless
'10 Elan 5
'23 Series II Europa 5

mike1762

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1048
Q switch
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 08:05:45 AM »
Does anyone know if there is some philosophy behind the decision to design the electronics in this manner?  Why have a sweepable low pass filter rather than a sweepable pass filter (no shelf)?  I'm finding some great sweet spots with the Q engaged around 400-800Hz, but the overall tone is too dark.  The signature package may take care of this (Q engaged on the neck PU but off on the Bridge PU).  Just curious.

briant

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 700
Q switch
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 11:57:45 AM »
I'll admit to being the dumb guy in this regard.
 
I have no idea what is going on with the Q switch and filters.  When I got my JPJ I just sat down and played with them until I figured out what kind of sounds they made when I turned the knobs and flipped the switches.  My JPJ has Signature electronics so obviously one switch and filter per pickup.
 
I might be over simplifying things (in my mind) since I've been using this system now for 3+ years.  I do know that I absolutely LOVE the tonal variations that I can get with the Signature electronics.  Hence the reason I got Signature electronics on my Rogue 5 string. :-)

glocke

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1258
Q switch
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 12:41:17 PM »
Dont feel too stupid Brian, some of the techie stuff makes me feel dumb also..
 
So, for us Homers in the crowd, if I have the Neck pickup filter set midway, say at 700Hz, all the frequencies below that will be allowed to pass if the Q switch is off.  When the Q switch is turned on, the 700Hz frequency ONLY gets an 8 db boost.  Right???

briant

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 700
Q switch
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 01:02:01 PM »
I believe that's correct, Greg.
 
I know that with the bridge pickup only and the switch turned off I can roll back the filter about 1/4 turn and suddenly my bass sounds like a Jazz bass on steroids.
 
Or bridge pickup only with the switch turned on I can roll the filter back a bit and get a very nice P bass type sound.

mike1762

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1048
Q switch
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 01:51:13 PM »
Greg,
I think that is correct.  The issue for me is that the filter always (Q on or off)sets the breakpoint for a low pass shelf.  I can dial in a nice 800Hz punch, but I lose all the frequencies above that...thus the dark tone.

tbrannon

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1961
Q switch
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 02:00:25 PM »
Mike,
 
I only own one Alembic bass and it's signature equipped, but my gut feeling is that you are going to REALLY like the signature setup.
 
Having a filter+Q for each pickup and a pan knob allows you to dial in that 'punch' on one pickup and then use the other pickup to add top end or a thumpy dub bottom... then just use the pan to blend the two pickups until you find what you're looking for.
 
Toby

bob

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 808
Q switch
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 02:09:33 PM »
Without meaning to be picky about terminology, I'd like to try to clarify a few things here.
 
First, it really is not appropriate to use the term shelving when describing these filters. A shelving filter, or tone control, will raise or lower all frequencies beyond a particular point, by a fixed amount. For example, it might reduce all frequencies above 3 kHz by 10 dB. In contrast, the low pass filter has a roll-off slope beyond the set frequency, such that higher frequencies are reduced at the rate of 12 dB per octave (doubling of frequency). In other words, if the filter frequency is set at 3 kHz, then 6 kHz would be reduced by 12 dB, 12 kHz by 24 dB, and so forth.
 
Second, while these filters may be parametric in some literal sense (since you can adjust the frequency and Q parameters), they are really very different animals from what most people would think of when you talk about a parametric equalizer.
 
Here is exactly what you can do with one of these low pass filters and a three position Q switch:
 

 
The graph in the lower right shows what the Q switch does. In the high position, it gives you a sharp peak at the set frequency position, while in the off or 0 position it allows the filter to roll off smoothly without a peak, and the middle position gives you a modest emphasis. Note that in all positions of the Q switch, you still end up with a 12 dB roll-off above the set frequency. Q simply determines whether you get an emphasis, and how much, at that frequency.
 
Changing the frequency setting shifts the roll-off point (and the peak, if Q is engaged) right or left, as shown in the upper right. So as you lower the frequency, you are eliminating more of the highs, and more drastically than if you were turning down a shelving treble control.

keurosix

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 453
Q switch
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 03:32:05 PM »
Thanks for clearing this up Bob, the diagram really shows what words have a tough time describing. Mike, I think Toby says it best that with 2 filters you can combine a low centered filter on one pickup with a high centered one on the other, and get a variable blend with the pan pot. However, even with only one filter, I have never had it sounding too dark for my tastes. In fact, the Alembic circuitry usually has way too much high end for my liking, and I find myself backing off on my preamp treble settings to compensate. Also, if your strings are dead, you can get some life back just by setting the filter higher to allow more highs through. Maybe this could be a contribution to the dark sound you preceive - are your strings old? Also, you may get more gain from the guitar by adjusting the pickups closer to the strings, or using the trim pot inside the control to get more overall gain. Happy experimenting!
Kris

mike1762

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1048
Q switch
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 04:56:36 PM »
Thanks guys.  Bob, the diagram really helped.  I don't want to sound like I'm complaining about the tone (heck, on every other guitar I own I just put everything on 10 and get my tone from the amp), I just wanted to get an understanding of how it worked.  Like I said, the Spoiler doesn't have a bad sound when playing by itself, but I'm having real issues getting it to sit in the mix when recording.  I'm going to have to invest in a good pre-amp (right now I'm running through an ART Pro Channel then straight into the board).  Hopefully my SC will be here soon and I can try out the Signature electronics.

David Houck

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15600
Q switch
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 06:42:12 PM »
Thanks Bob; great description!

glocke

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1258
Q switch
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2008, 03:22:05 AM »
Yes, thanks Bob.  That clears up alot.  It is probably the most useful explanation Ive seen.  
 
Dave, any chance we could have that put in the FAQ section of the boards?