A dark day in history

[cozmik_cowboy]

On this date in 1965, Columbia Broadcasting System purchased Fender Musical Instruments.  Almost as sad as the day AMF bought Harley-Davidson.
 
Peter

[lbpesq]

And, stupid me thought only pre-CBS fenders would ever be worth anything.  When I think of all the late 60's and early 70's Strats and Teles I could have had for a song - and their value today!!!!!!!!!  Oh well, whoda thunkit?
 
Bill, tgo

[cozmik_cowboy]

No, Bill, not their value today - their price.  Crap is crap no matter how much fools pay.
 
Peter

[rami]

Hey Peter,
 
I think that Crap is a relative term for Fenders. Old Fenders are ALWAYS a hit or miss situation.  There were never two that were the same, that is, they had horrible quality control. When you found a good one though, it was a real gem.  I have a thing for late 60s and early 70s Jazz Basses.  Some play well and look good, others just look good and play/sound like Crap.
 
I guess we can call them a Crap Shoot!
 
 
 
Rami

[lbpesq]

The 70's Strats with the three bolt neck were crap.  Dig in hard and you're out of tune.  But Peter, you hit the nail on the head: value v. price.
 
Bill, tgo

[cozmik_cowboy]

I've always heard that, Rami, but I've got to say, I've played dozens of Strats, Teles, Mustangs, Jaguars & Electric XIIs from '59-'66 and every one of them was wonderful.  Now, I also played what, if you could trust Fender serial numbers, should be the last Nocaster & 2nd Tele or 2nd-to-last Nocaster & 1st Tele, and thought they were awful - but I hate v-shaped necks & maple fretboards, so that may have been it. But as to QC, well, they weren't using CNC.
And that's a big 10-4 on the 3-bolts, Bill.
 
Peter

[rami]

I think that the best Fenders are actually what they make today. Graphite re-enforced necks, string through body bridges, tighter neck joints, better pickups and so on.  They sound and play great. I can't say enough about how impressed I am by how far Fender has come in their quality. In my opinion, even the best vintage Fenders don't compare.  Their appeal is mostly nostalgic (in my opinion).
 
(Message edited by rami on January 05, 2013)

[cozmik_cowboy]

Yes, they've improved greatly from the '70s; what turns me off on the new ones is best captured by one of their product descriptions: Classic tone and feel, updated with 10 radius, medium-jumbo frets, and new electronics.  In otherwords, missing the 7? radius, small frets, and unique tone that make me love them.  Fine, use their current techniques -  but the only design improvements you could make to a '63 Strat are an accessible trussrod, shielding, and star grounding.  And don't point me at the Time Machine series; they do not feel like the originals.  
I'd love a new Fender, but it would have to be a Master Built - and I'd still probably miss the '66 Tele I learned on.
 
Peter (who you'd never know from this thread  actually prefers Gibsons most of the time) (Except for bass; there's this new company that makes these amazing instruments.........)

[bassilisk]

No doubt the early stuff was a crap shoot, but I will second that when you got a good one, it was amazing. Nobody was more skeptical about this than me, until I bought the '66 Jazz I currently own several years ago.  
 
I would not trade it for any new Fender, or anything else for that matter. I consider myself one of the fortunate ones.

[lbpesq]

I've yet to play a new Strat that compares favorably with my '61 slab board.  Admittedly, I swapped out those tiny little Fender frets for some larger ones 35 years ago.  In the early years I also added a brass nut and bridge saddles, strat-o-blaster, Stars Guitars Startone EQ, Seymour Duncan bridge pick up, and shielding paint (trying for Alembic-type instrument).  
 
Later, I swapped everything back to stock, except the frets and shielding paint.  On the other hand, I have a 50th Anniversary Tele (1996 - 1250 made) that is a great guitar and has one of the few maple fingerboards I like.
 
Bill, tgo

[rami]

That's really cool Will.  I always wanted a '66.  Mostly, they're way out of reach as far as cost (around 10K).  1966 was a transition year for the Jazz Bass: Fingerboard binding with dots and later that year transitioned to block inlays as well as the oval tuners ('66 to '69). I have a '68 which I really love.  I actually found it just before the market went nuts.  I paid 3K for it.  It's all original with the case and accessories / tags.  Near Mint.  

   

   

   

   It does play and sound great, but not as full or powerful sounding as a newer American Standard. I really do notice the benefits of the modern design and features. That can't be denied.    (Message edited by rami on January 05, 2013)

[bassilisk]

rami,  That's a really great example!  You can find a really nice '66 now at just north of $6K lately. The vintage market is getting a bit soft (again) though things won't get silly cheap ever. I bought mine at the peak a few years ago, but I was at least able to compare it to 4 other 60's vintage basses, 2 older 2 newer. This was the one, hands down. If there's another player at a gig I always get a compliment on the sound - first question is usually, "Is it a real one?" When I say yes, they typically say, don't ever sell it.  I got it from a friend that's a dealer who bought it from the original owner. He obviously played it ALOT, but he had a body guard on it and the back is nealy pristine. It is all straight and absolutely sings. I have 4 other Jazz basses in various states on modern-ness and although they are each wonderful in their own way, they just can't touch this one for what it brings.

 

[rami]

Nice example too!  The version of the'66 that I'd like to find would be the earlier one with the dot inlays.  Those are SUPER rare (and no doubt SUPER expensive).

[bassilisk]

Not as rare as you'd think and not that rich unless it's a custom color, and a rare one at that. Here's decent one for $6K. Not collector quality, but can be brought into player grade for just a bit more.  
 
http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-1966-fender-jazz-bass-sunburst

[rami]

Thanks for the Link Will. That's the exact version of the '66 that I like.  And it looks like the vintage market has softened a bit. That's definitely one to consider.