Cobra (Zorn) improv

[811952]

At last night's local weekly jazz jam, one of the guys introduced us to Cobra by John Zorn.  Pretty darn useful tool imho.  Anybody here ever mess around with this?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_(Zorn)
 
John
 
(Message edited by 811952 on June 04, 2013)

[sonicus]

Thanks , I intend to explore this !

[sonicus]

Thanks , I intend to explore this !
 
(spontaneous stereo posting)
 
(Message edited by sonicus on June 04, 2013)

[cozmik_cowboy]

Jazz with a viper?  OK, but I think John meant to link to this Cobra.  (Though, come to think of it, aren't vipers common in jazz? )
Sounds cool.  Tom Constantin once wrote an orchestral piece with the score in a pentangle; you could start at any point & follow until it came back around.
 
Peter  
 
Peter

[darkstar01]

Cobra is really intense, and zorn has been known to be really secretive about how it actually works. I have a friend who has a couple of records on John's label, so he's talked to him about it a few times, and apparently there's only one other guy in the world that john will allow to conduct it live. He's a japanese vocalist,  and I cant remember his name right now but I'll look in to it, because his music is pretty crazy and worth sharing.
Can't say I really expected to see Zorn's name on here.

[hieronymous]

Yamatsuka Eye?

[811952]

Tim Doyle, the guitarist who introduced it to us, just spent a week or so with Robert Fripp and I'm reasonably sure that's where he got it.  It would seem, to me, to explain much about the improvisations of King Crimson over the years.  If it's not the same thing Fripp has been doing, then it is at least similar.
 
John

[darkstar01]

No it's not Eye... i'll have to ask my friend about it. I had never heard of the guy when he first told me about him. I know Eye from his stuff with Naked City, and some other odds and ends.
 
edit: did some research and i THINK it's Makigami Koichi. he's in this band called Hikashu. could be wrong, though.
 
(Message edited by darkstar01 on June 04, 2013)

[David Houck]

Here is a pretty good video of Zorn directing Cobra.

[jagerphan84]

Am I the only one who hears shades of Zappa coming through?  Just need the band to go PEEP or PLUAGHHHH on command and it would be spot on.

[hydrargyrum]

That seems like an interesting exercise, but I don't find it terribly listenable.  I definitely hear similarities to some of Zappa's stuff (which I love), but his music was carefully scored and choreographed, and this seems like talented musicians making random noises on command. I could imagine how it might be fun to be in the group, but it seems like the sonic equivalent of a room full of monkeys and typewriters hoping to randomly write Shakespeare.  Maybe I'm just a philistine.

[darkstar01]

That's a bit harsh...  I'll admit that improvised music doesn't translate terribly well to recordings,  but when you're talking about some of the musicians initially involved in Cobra - monkeys with typewriters it is not.  
As with all avant garde music, it's a reflection of the time it was created. So the piece is pretty outdated at this point, and I'd be willing to bet that's why Zorn is so particular about it being performed.  He doesn't even touch the game pieces that evolved from cobra any more. Those are WAY out.

[hydrargyrum]

Perhaps that was a bit badly phrased, but it still sounds very random to my ear.  I have no doubt that the folks performing are very talented (as I said), but I can't imagine listening to it for enjoyment.  I could also probably appreciate the variety of sounds found in the cacophony of a construction site, but I wouldn't call it music.  I feel similarly about this.

[darkstar01]

I would say there's as big a discrepancy between the experience of seeing good improvised music live and listening to a recording as there is in any form of art. I play in a band that gets grouped with this kind of stuff all the time (even though what we do is almost through composed), and I've been around this kind of stuff for a long time, and I can't say I find it terribly interesting 99% of the time.
There is, however, some really great (and more digestible) Zorn stuff out there.  Check out Masada (and Electric Masada), they are outstanding.

[Bradley Young]

This does absolutely nothing for me. It does not meet the bar, in my opinion, of even being music. Or even sound for that matter. It's just noise.
 
This is the musical equivalent of Befunge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befunge it's just deliberately obtuse and difficult. I understand that some appreciate that; I guess I'm stuck with Bourgeois sensibilities.
 
Bradley