Author Topic: Boogieman Version of the DS-5 (Read 950 times)

bonesrad · « **on:** June 03, 2013, 10:10:15 PM »

I've been considering a DS-5 for my Alembic and came across a Boogieman version of the power supply on eBay. The seller apparently has 5 for sale. The price seemed right so I made the move on one of them. Do you out there envision any concerns I should have with this unit?

Bones

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2013, 02:39:45 PM »

You besides his crappy attitude & No returns policy? He & his stuff was discussed in this thread and this one.

Peter

edwin · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2013, 08:35:02 PM »

Before I'd plug it in, I'd just double check all the pins and make sure the voltage is right on the right pins. But then, I'd do it on any power supply I didn't get straight from Santa Rosa. I've built a few of these, they aren't difficult, so it should be fine.

terryc · « **Reply #3 on:** June 05, 2013, 05:05:50 AM »

OMG!!! Those posts are near the knuckle, my humble opinion is that if the PU's and/or electronics failed on my MK I would absolutley no hestitation whatsover than to get the original equipment from Alembic. As far as putting Alembics electronics in other guitars, that is a bonus to the instrument but it is a personal view as many bass/guitar players still prefer the original pick up sound of their instruments.
Horses for courses as they say.
And my advice to you bonesrad is to get the Alembic unit, reason? you know it's built and specified for your instrument. would you plug a Samsung phone charger into your latest iPhone even if the sockets were the same?? I guess not!

terryc · « **Reply #4 on:** June 05, 2013, 05:06:04 AM »

Double post removed!

(Message edited by TerryC on June 05, 2013)

edwin · « **Reply #5 on:** June 05, 2013, 07:12:44 AM »

Terry, it's a bit different from plugging a Samsung charger into an iPhone. This is actually built and specified for an Alembic bass. The question is not whether it will perform its function but how well it will perform its function. As I said, it's not hard to build one of these, I've done it, and it functioned perfectly. It's basically a transformer, a rectifier and a few other parts. There are reasons to get the original Alembic version, and the reason to get one of theirs instead of one of my homebuilt ones is that they have much better metal work and probably a much higher reliability. Boogieman's metal work is better than mine and his guts look OK. It does not appear that he's throwing a random power supply in a box and calling it appropriate for Alembic.

If he were winding pickups (actually, I think he has), I'd be a bit more hesitant about those because there's a lot more variability in producing pickups and experience counts here. It's not as simple as putting random wire on a random magnet and it's something that is not only in the signal path, it originates the signal path.

Onboard electronics would be somewhere in between. I doubt I'd put them in an Alembic bass, but I would see no reason not to try them out in something else.

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #6 on:** June 05, 2013, 08:43:02 AM »

I could imagine putting the boogieman electronics in an Alembic that was already gutted as a middle step to restoring it completely. At least it would have the same functionality. The honest truth is that the schematics are out there, and as long as you use top quality components, anyone with decent soldering skills should be able to produce a decent product. The hard part was the innovation and testing that went into the creation of the guts initially.

terryc · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2013, 03:47:48 AM »

Maybe I am just too loyal to Alembic..which cannot be a bad thing!

edwin · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2013, 07:08:11 AM »

Nothing wrong with that!

JimmyJ · « **Reply #9 on:** June 06, 2013, 09:48:03 AM »

As Edwin says, there is no big mystery to power supplies. But yes, check the pin-out and the voltage before you plug your costly instrument into it. It will likely work just fine.

Below is a pic of one of my modded DS-5s. Series electronics have a wide operating voltage range, from +/-9v (our onboard batteries) to +/-18v (the original DS-5). I found these +/-15v supplies which just barely fit in the box and can be switched to 240v input for traveling, something the original couldn't do. A couple car batteries provide good clean +/-12v. Or for a wireless rig a strap with about 10-9v batteries wired to give +/-18v would be great...

Interesting situation with this supplier though... Not knowing anything about his history or possible relationship with Alembic (and not interested enough to research it) I guess anybody can copy anything electronic which isn't sealed in resin... Considering how small this market is (how many of these units could he possibly be moving??) it would be a waste of Alembic's time to pursue any legal action against the guy. I'm not even sure there are any patent or trademark infringements here. As long as he doesn't sell them as Alembic products.

Real Alembic gear is costly but the main reasons to buy direct from them are:
1> We KNOW the build quality is second to none. No shortcuts in design or components, ever. Built for the road.
2> They back up their work.
3> Innovations like Ron's hand-tuned noise reduction are unique to this company.
4> C'mon, it's our family!!

Cheers,
Jimmy J

edwin · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2013, 10:11:44 AM »

Another big reason to buy from Alembic is that they did the research and development. Recouping those ongoing costs is not always the quickest thing to happen. I don't think that there is an intellectual property defense here if Boogieman did not copy the actual artwork of circuit boards, but I could be wrong. I'm not a licensed attorney. Some of these circuits are derived from copies of copies (I'm thinking of the F2B, which is based on the Fender Showman, which is based on tube manufacturer supplied designs from many decades ago).

sonicus · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2013, 12:24:34 PM »

Well , Well ,Well____ LOL !_____ There are many factors to deliberate and inspect on this topic. As well , an introspective analysis of my feelings about this.

Look at the Boogiemanunits internal pictures on eBay (look closely)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOOGIEMAN-POWER-FOR-ALEMBIC-SERIES-GUITARS-DUAL-VOLTAGE-115-230-SWITHING-NEW-/330935716220?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4d0d4e497cboogieman

The Boogieman unit also has two internal adjustments ( +V &-V variations calibration ? OR?) There has been no public disclosure of that detail that I am aware of .

If the internal adjustments in the Boogieman unit are not calibrated to the parameters needed of Alembic Series electronics will you have problems and damage if the voltage is above the acceptable parameters ? LOL !!!!!!!!!!! (what do you think ?) (I have had plenty experience with trimpots in electronic & audio alignment procedures)

Personally , I will not be plugging my Alembic Series I/II Bass into one of these.

The original Alembic DS-5 circuit with 5 pin /pinout specs and acceptable voltage output has been discussed in this forum.

We have NO DISCLOSURE as to the specific schematics of the Boogieman unit nor do we know what the adjustment parameters are of the internal trim pots nor any other specs .
All that has had public disclosure is the ebay offering that we are aware of with the associated pictures in the auction. (look carefully )
Another factor to deliberate ; who has designed the Boogieman unit and WHERE is it built and WHERE is the PC board manufactured and components assembled . The printing on the outside reads Made in USA how about the actual circuit boards and internal assembly? I do not know .

WHAT WE DO KNOW ________ is that Alembic Inc. products are made in Santa Rosa , California with high attention to detail in all parameters and specific application ; with lots of LOVE !
In an introspective analysis of what is important to me I find that it is important to perpetuate the existence of the Mother Ship_______ The Original Alembic ____ Bottom Line _____

bonesrad · « **Reply #12 on:** June 06, 2013, 02:10:25 PM »

I appreciate everybody's comments regarding this unit. I asked for comments because after I purchased the unit, I had second thoughts as I don't want to cause any damage to the Series I electronics on my bass. I might just end up taking a bath on this unit. We'll see. BTW, the unit is different from the unit sonicus lists above. The one I bought does not have the switchable voltage.

Bones

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #13 on:** June 06, 2013, 02:11:09 PM »

Wouldn't a multimeter be sufficient to verify that all of the pins are functioning properly? - Yes.

We're talking about an 18 volt system right? Don't 9 volt batteries vary as much as a few volts per cell? So how would a few volts difference vary from using battery power? - Not much if any. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but fresh nine volts read more like 10 volts, and two of them in series would be more like 20 volts than 18).

What disclosure from Alembic do we receive as to the internal trimpot settings of their equipment or specific schematics? - None. To be fair, they know their own stuff better than I know my own face, but lack of proof from boogieman isn't proof of lack.

Who designed the Boogieman unit? - Alembic. It was reversed engineered, which is kind of sneaky, but totally legal and not uncommon.

Where is it manufactured? - Probably China

and assembled? - New York (according to the ad).

Where is the PCB manufactured? - Probably China, but last time I checked copper was copper was copper . . . I also doubt that Alembic personally builds resistors, capacitors, or IC chips. They're probably also made in China.

I can agree with the following: Alembic is super awesome! They make their products with love! Their components are so much more valuable that you'd be a fool to swap with boogieman. I'd rather own a brand new Series II than I would a new Tesla Roadster. Coco Bolo is sweet! Dave Houck is the man. Ohms law is V=IR. And Dave Houck is the man. *I like Dave.*

But without having the boogieman board sitting next to the Alembic board, any comparison is speculative, and somewhat emotional.

sonicus · « **Reply #14 on:** June 06, 2013, 03:32:09 PM »

A multimeter will indeed be a sufficient tool to check the PIN assignment but it will not tell you anything about noise and ripple , I test that on an oscilloscope.

Who designed the Boogieman Unit ?___it was not reverse engineered ! We have had the original DS-5 schematic diagram on this forum . I can read schematic diagrams , that is why I wrote look closely !
My concern about the trim pot alignment variation has nothing to do with a comparison from a battery power source. If you are taking AC line power potential of voltages of 110/220 volts and making them conducive to Alembic Series I/II 5 pin requirements if the +/- DC voltage is to high then you will have a reason to be SOMEWHAT EMOTIONAL !! LOL!!!. That is why in this case in my opinion there is a valid concern regarding the internal trimpot setting variations and voltage range .____Better safe then sorry.

(Message edited by sonicus on June 06, 2013)