Pay To Play? Nein Danke! ( No Thanks!)

[mike1762]

In the 80's I was willing to do the P2P thing with ORIGINAL music... certainly not as a cover band.  My current band has a base rate of $600/night... more if it's a long drive or you want more than the usual 4 x 45min sets.  You want us to provide PA?... add $150.  You want us to provide lights?... add another $150.  We just don't budge from that fee schedule and the venue either wants us or they don't.  It's the CarMax approach to dealing with clubs.

[gtrguy]

To me the money just indicates a certain level of professionalism. If a band is good and has good (translate; expensive) gear, then if they aren't making some kind of money, then something is wrong. I have seen or played in too many wanna-be, hobby, and fantasy bands over the last 40 years to want to go down that path again.
 
I realize this is entirely subjective, but that's what I personally believe.

[darkstar01]

I play avant garde music in NYC. If venues aren't pay for play, and you're not John Zorn or Marc Ribot, you're not getting paid. I'm not agreeing with it, that's just the way it is. As a musician, it's pretty much what I've grown up with. I've never actually gotten to the point where I owed the venue money, though. Usually it's something like 40 bucks to book, and you take everything after that. The same places are usually $5-10 a head, so that's really not asking much. There are some horror stories, though.. http://tinyurl.com/l9b3wxw
 
As a younger musician on a scene where there isn't much money going around, this is just kind of the reality of things. It isn't the 60s, it's not even the 90s. People just don't care enough to guarantee money anymore. I understand it from the venues' standpoint. That doesn't make it right, but we can't all be so lucky to play for an attentive audience that gives a damn.

[elwoodblue]

 
(blues bros. clip)

[coop]

Pay to play is a crock. Do the club owners charge their wait and bar staff to come work? Didn't think so.  
 
If the club wants live music, they need to pay the band as well as not putting the onus of success or failure of one night on the band's following. If you want a band that will have a guarantee of enough loyal fans to blow out the revenue projections for the night, get a name recording act. Oh, wait, you have to pay those folks.
 
If the owner can't fill the club, it's not the band's fault. Most of us promote our bands like crazy no matter if it's pay-to-play, crappy pay, for-the-door, a festival, or a benefit, and we can never guarantee any following will show up. Blaming the band for a crappy night is an owner's cop-out for their own shortcomings. A band should be part of the draw to customers, but can't be the only reason folks will come by for some drinks.  
 
Lazy bastards.

[lbpesq]

Just to play devil's advocate, I suspect many of the venues that don't pay, or pay peanuts, are struggling economically themselves.  In times like we are currently experiencing, there just isn't as much money to go around.  The ideal situation would be for the venue and bands to recognize the realities and work together for everyone's mutual benefit.  
 
(Do I sound like I'm singing kumbuyah here?)  
 
Perhaps venues could guarantee modest, but reasonable pay, with a more generous split as attendance increases.  Also, if the venue made it more comfortable for the band, the band would be more willing to play there again and build a following for both the band and the venue.
 
Can't we all just get along?
 
Bill, tgo

[5a_quilt_top]

I play for free.
 
But I expect to get compensated for band rehearsals, personal rehearsals, equipment purchases/maintenance, travel, i-tune downloads, wardrobe, roadie work and the leg work/project coordination required to secure gigs and ensure everyone is prepared and available to play.
 
The way I look at it, the $50 - $100 cut I receive for a typical four hour gig winds up translating to about $1.25 per hour after all of that work (and it is work, 'cuz most of it ain't fun) is factored in.
 
And -  I can reduce that to less than $1.25 per hour if I recklessly decide to indulge in an adult beverage or two (if we're not comped) during the gig.
 
That is why I don't rely on playing bar gigs to survive.

[cozmik_cowboy]

The last band I worked for full-time (1984) played NY to CO, TX to MN carrying a big honkin' PA & had a singer, guitar, keyboards, trumpet, trombone, sax, bass, drums, FoH, monitors, Stage Manager (me), 3 roadies & a road manager (notice I get caps & he doesn't) - no one was getting rich (or even middle-class), but we had not a day job between us, and that, my friends, was how we defined sucess.  Can you even do that anymore?  Definitely not by paying the venue!
 
Peter