Entwistle's Alembic beginnings

[aquaman]

Was there any responsee from Alembic mothership to JE's Exploiter failure at Live Aid?  JE was a huge fan/user of Alembics and his decision not to use them on stage after the musicous interruptus was likely not well received.

[811952]

I had occasion to chat with him online once, and asked about this.  He said the main reason that he went away from Alembic was the neck-stability issue (exacerbated by that extremely low action he liked) and the desire for what graphite had to offer.  I think the Live Aid incident just helped nudge that dissatisfaction along..
 
John

[elwoodblue]

John ,
thanks for sharing...it's nice to hear things straight from the Ox's mouth  
  ( or fingertips as online chats go).

[elwoodblue]

Anyone in the seattle area with a good reel to reel?
I have an interview with him that should be digitized and shared if it has any new info in it.
 
If there's not, I'll buy a good R to R and take on the task myself.

[lbpesq]

As I recall, in the very early days of Alembic, when they still worked out of a barn and before they started manufacturing their own instruments, the Who's manager used to regularly show up with a bag full of guitar parts that Townsend had smashed so that Alembic could put it all back together.  Thus, there was a very early Who/Alembic connection.  
 
Bill, tgo

[willie]

I thought the problem with John's bass at Live Aid had to with a battery he had put in backwards or something like that, not the neck but I could be wrong. I think there is a thread about it here somehere

[hieronymous]

There's some discussion of it here! Like many legends, the details aren't crystal clear, and there are multiple views of the same incident, Rashomon style...

[dfung60]

Here's the story, straight from John.  It's in the August 1989 issue of Guitar Player (before Bass Player spun out):
 
http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/equipment/bass/equip-entwistlegear-74-85.html
 
You'll find the specific quote if you search the page for Live Aid.  
 
So, the problem was both the neck/action sensitivity and the 5-pin jack incompatibility.
 
The action that he preferred was really unbelievable.  Entwistle had Modulus build necks that were incorporated into some of his Alembic Exploiters, then later had Modulus build graphite-necked Buzzard clones.  I'm close with Geoff Gould who was running the place at the time, and regularly visited the Modulus factory in San Francisco.  Entwistle had sent Modulus one of the prototype Warwick Buzzards (it had a special inlay in the neck to that effect), which was in wenge and zebrawood.  I'm quite fond of Warwicks from that period (late 80's to about 1990) and the workmanship on this one was quite extraordinary.  It was sitting on a stand in Geoff's office, and I asked if I could play it.  I did and immediately thought that the action was messed up as it was in tune but buzzed pretty much everywhere on the neck.  Geoff told me that this was actually in exactly the action that Entwistle played them in and that they were to duplicate the action exactly (I think they left it with Modulus while Entwistle was passing through town).  I never met the bass tech (he's quite famous and his name is totally escaping me right now), but I was told that he was constantly tweaking action on the wood necked basses through a show as humidity and temperature changes messed up the action (and that the Warwicks were worse than the Alembics, again not a suprise given the oil finish).
 
David Fung

[white_cloud]

Yes Warwicks were of a very high quality from the early 80's up until around 90/91 - then it was all down hill after their subsequent change of location/factory. Then of course the rockbass cheap models raised their ugly head and sealed Warwick's fate for me as a top luthier!
 
David, Im really not sure that an oil finish would leave an instrument more vulnerable to moisture absortion than lacquer or any other type of finish. Im a furniture maker and use oils a lot - always seems to do a great job of sealing end grain off from moisture to me!
 
The OX may have loved his graphite necks/instruments latterly but not one of them ever sounded anywhere near as good as his wooden Alembics for me - just my opinion! His action seemed to be ridiculously low to me, when he performed during the latter part of his life his tone was marred by fret buzz all over his bass necks. I didnt like it.
 
John.

[funkyjazzjunky]

John,
 
Will the hand sliding up and down the neck wear off an oil finish over time?  Won't that make the neck susceptible to moisture?

[senmen]

David, Guys,
 
well that low action is the secret of Johns playing and tone. And as for his playing style you have to forget everything you know about classic bass playing. Remember, even when he played normally with his fingers, he always brought the strings to vertical movement, not horizontally. For this and to play fast you need that low action. If you try to rise the action this playing really gets hard and you loose much of the treble, Johns basses were playable, but not in the classic way. It is the same with mine. Also people told me that they cannot play with Tears for John due to the low action and the buzzing that happens when playing in normal fingerstyle.
As for the tone: Yes, also for me, Alembic was and is the classic Entwistle tone. The graphite basses are too neutral in sound and you can?t get that piano highs that you can get with an Alembic.
Anyone who is interested in a closer description of Johns playing style send me an email. I am happy to help you with this.
 
Oliver (Spyderman)

[white_cloud]

Funkjazzzunky,  
 
my (limited) understanding of oil is that it penetrates very deeply into wood and therefore would never entirely wear off. Put simply, it isnt just a finish that sits on the surface - it is ingested very deeply (depending on what type of wood was used for the neck of course!)Lacquer/varnishes on the other hand do not absorb deeply into wood but form a surface finish!
 
Also, wood takes very very little moisture in along the grain - minimal really! The end grain is where its at in this respect - it is so important to seal it properly!  
 
A lot of people believe that when a piece of timber, through time,  is harvested, dried then machined that it is dead but that is not the case. Timber is a living thing that is constantly moving/changing, adapting to its environment, for many years. For furniture makers the consideration that goes into timber movement is possibly the biggest concern. If your design does not allow for movement then you will end up with cracks, checks and even a broken cabinet/piece!
 
Im not a guitar maker but I am assuming that all of the above is the very reason all wooden necks must have truss rods fitted!
 
Oil is a very durable & deep pentrating wood finish but offers less surface protection than other finishes
 
John.

[bigbadbill]

I like John's Alembic sound best by far, but I probably prefer his Warwicks and Statii to his Fender/TBird sounds. However I am most definitely a bass guitarist, as I finally realised recently. Most of my time spent eq-ing my basses is about getting as much treble (though not tweeter-treble as I hate them!) and as little bass (whilst still making it workeable)as possible. Me and Lemmy both I guess.
 
As for the fretbuzz, I love it! I never wanted a big round sound, I want a snarly, aggressive, twangy tone. I've had this discussion with Chris May at Overwater before now who has insisted my action is too low (it's much higher than John's). It's that way because I like how it feels and how it sounds. If I have what most would term a medium action I just don't like the way it sounds, never mind plays.

[dfung60]

Olivier -  
 
Thanks for your note.  When you say Entwistle played vertically, do you mean with the string motion parallel to the fretboard or perpendicularly (I can't see how the latter would work at all)?  
 
I see that he regularly uses a right hand tapping motion which creates perpendicular vibration when he wants to do something really snarly, but there are also a lot of times when it at least looks like a fairly normal right-hand style.  He has an amazingly dynamic and aggressive sound, but with that sort of action, must by playing relatively lightly and precisely to control the buzz.
 
Is there a left-hand fretting pressure/muting thing happening when he's playing normal lines? Or is the change in tone all coming from right-hand modulation?
 
David Fung

[tbrannon]

I'll second David's question- I'm quite interested in hearing more if you have the time Oliver.
 
Toby