Like a New Bass, Almost

[82daion]

I finally broke down and took my Series I in to a local luthier to get the bridge repaired. The saddle slots had been cut badly at some point, and were allowing the strings to buzz and rattle quite a bit. Understandably, this affected the sound of the bass and was driving me crazy.
 
The luthier re-cut the slots in the saddles, and the improvement in sound that resulted was immediately noticeable. The A and D strings especially sound fuller and fatter, with more piano-like harmonic content, and the G string doesn't buzz like mad in the saddle anymore. I liked the sound of the bass before, but it sounds almost like a different instrument now, thanks to the improved coupling with the bridge. The next step is to move or replace the tailpiece, but this was a good start.
 
I'm glad that I found what I was missing before I did something unwise, like selling the bass. An Alembic in full health is certainly a force to be contended with, and I'm glad to finally have a bright note in what has been a somewhat frustrating ownership experience at times.

[2400wattman]

why would you want/need to move the tail piece?

[82daion]

The tailpiece is mounted so far back from the bridge and installed at such an angle that there's not much break over the bridge. Moving the tailpiece would improve the break angle and reduce the string movement in the saddles even more.  
 
As it stands, the strings are deflecting over the bridge at 10, maybe 15 degrees, and while it's close, it's not enough to really get good string tension over the bridge. I don't have much room to move it, but even a small nudge forward would help things a lot.

[funkyjazzjunky]

Would raising the bridge be on option for you?  
 
Would moving the tailpeice hurt re-sale value?

[82daion]

I can't improve the break angle by raising the bridge unless I raise it to an absurd height.
 
Since the tailpiece can be moved in a way that brings it closer to the bridge while concealing the holes, I'm not particularly worried about its effect on the resale value. The resulting improvement in playability would more than offset the loss in value even if it did affect the resale value somewhat.
 
But I'm planning on keeping the bass for a while, so it shouldn't be an issue.
 
(Message edited by 82Daion on August 26, 2008)

[811952]

Be aware that moving it too close to the bridge might well create other problems, such as the strings resting against the rather pointy rear rail of the bridge.  I've got that situation with one of my strings and have resorted to wedging a small square of cardboard under the string to soften the angle and hopefully avert a string breakage..
 
Glad you're otherwise loving the bass!
 
John

[lbpesq]

If the luthier re-cut slots in the same saddles, rather than using new, uncut saddles, then it would seem to me that your problem is that the strings are laying too low in the saddles.  Moving the tailpiece seems like a pretty radical solution.  In the several years I've been in this forum, I don't recall anyone ever noting that the placement of the tailpiece was ineffective.  And does increasing the break angle over the bridge really make that much of a difference (if the saddles are cut correctly)?
 
Bill, tgo

[82daion]

Bill, the amount of material removed from the saddles was tiny. Re-cut may be a more extreme description than what actually happened-the luthier filed the slots so that the break point was actually a point rather than a flattened area where the string was resting. The saddles were so worn that the break point had been worn flat.  
 
As I noted, the problem was much, much worse before the work was done, so the string height is probably fine. I'd love to replace the saddles with new ones, but there are two reasons that I haven't. Firstly, the bridge can't be disassembled because the nuts for the intonation screws have been peened on, making it impossible to remove the intonation screws without destroying them. Secondly, every time I've tried to contact Alembic about buying a new set of blanks, they have never returned my calls or emails. I suppose I could buy some brass bar stock and make my own, but I'd rather get them from Alembic  
 
If you look at pictures of other basses, John's, for example, you can see that the tailpiece is often much closer to the bridge when compared to mine. It seems that this is the case on many of the early basses, and mine isn't the first I've heard of with this issue. Whatever happens, I will likely install a new set of saddles before moving the tailpiece. I'd rather not drill into the bass if I don't have to. ;-)
 
(Message edited by 82Daion on August 26, 2008)

[mica]

If the string is moving in the saddles, then either the slot is not cut correctly or the saddle is not mounted rigidly to the bridge. Identify the source of the movement and then you can determine the best way to correct it.  
 
Especially on early instruments, there's examples of tailpieces that could have been placed better for string angle. How far away from the back rail are the strings now?

[82daion]

The issue of the slots has been rectified, but the saddles are not well mounted to the bridge-the E and G saddles especially have a noticeable amount of side-to-side play in them. It appears that the threads have worn out over the years, which was my main reason for trying to obtain some new ones.  
 
The strings still have a fair amount of clearance over the back rail of the bridge, which is the old style with the u-shaped baseplate instead of the later rail style, for clarity. I can't take exact measurements, but I will post a picture later.

[mica]

Maybe the simplest thing to do is to remove the original channel bridge and put it away for posterity and replace with the improved double rail bridge. Each saddle has both an intonation screw and a stabilizing pin. In the channel bridge, stabilization is from resting on the bottom of the channel. One screw means wiggle room is possible, especially after 30+ years.  
 
Nice thing is this method is 100% reversible if you ever want to restore the bass to original condition.

[mica]

Couple of angles of the double rail bridge can be found here and here.

[82daion]

Mica, please send me an email (at the address in my profile) telling me how much that would cost. I've inquired about doing that before, but I never received a response-it would definitely be my preferred course of action.
 
Thank you.

[mica]

Email sent.

[David Houck]

John; your slots may be too deep.  If so, you can correct the problem with new saddles.  By cutting shallow slots in new blanks, you can then lower the bridge itself until string height is where you want it, and the resulting rail height will be lower.