Opinions on Amount of Polish / Perfection Required to Book a Typical Gig

[5a_quilt_top]

Preface: Pete Townshend once said Never let the music get in the way of a good show.
 
As of this morning, I have parted ways with a project largely because of differences of opinion re: how perfect the performance needs to be before gigs can be booked.
 
Don't get me wrong - I don't like to be a part of a half-a$$ed project - I play Alembics, need I say more - ? But I also don't like to spend week after week paying for a rented practice space as a member of the Rehearsalots with no gigs in sight.
 
IMO, if the musicians are experienced / prepared and have agreed to a set list of material that is well-matched to their capabilities and the instrumentation available - it should require no more than 4-6 weeks (preferably less) - with rehearsals scheduled once or twice a week - to go out and play a typical club gig.
 
The ex-project was adamant that everything be perfect before a gig could even be booked. I took exception with that by saying that without a booking, the project would never achieve the required polish because there was no goal to work toward (no focus) therefore guaranteeing it would never be booked.
 
Plus - nothing puts the polish on a band faster than repeated live performance.
 
Opinions - ?

[rustyg61]

David, I'm sorry the band didn't work out for you, but I agree with you & have often said that you get more out of one gig than months of practice. With a live show the safety net is removed & you are forced to play it right! I have played in bands where we worked up 10 songs a week until we had enough to gig. If everyone does their homework the songs should come together quickly & all you have to work on is endings.

[lbpesq]

I have often said that playing with other people for 1 hour is the equivalent of playing by yourself for 10 hours, and playing before an audience for 1 hour is the equivalent of playing in the studio for 10 hours.
 
Bottom line is that it depends on the gig.  If I'm playing the local bar for drinks and tips, a little lack of polish is eminently acceptable.  If I'm playing an amphitheater before a large crowd, I'd like to be a little more rehearsed.
 
Which brings me some other words of wisdom(?) I've espoused for many years.  For every 100 times that I know I screwed up, my band-mates catch 10 and the audience catches 1.
 
just my $.02
 
Bill, tgo

[pauldo]

David - I agree whole heartedly with you ideals.  Sounds like leaving was difficult but certainly appropriate. And to mirror Bill's statement - The audience may or may not notice when a mistake is made - BUT when you nail it - everyone knows!
 
good luck.

[sonicus]

A quote from the great Trumpet player Harry James;
 
If I do not practice one day , I can tell the difference.
If I do not practice two days my band can tell the difference.
However, if I do not practice for three days everyone can tell the difference !

[5a_quilt_top]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes it was a difficult decision. I really liked the drummer - we locked in pretty good.
 
I should also mention this:
 
The tipping point for me occurred the other night when leaving rehearsal. Another musician who was rehearsing in the same facility (and who doesn't know me) called out to me as I was getting in my car and said hey man, you guys sounded good tonight.
 
That put some perspective on it because I figured if it sounded good to him - minor mistakes and all - there is no reason to not start booking bar gigs.

[peoplechipper]

You never get perfection live, it's more important to know that you can work through it and salvage the song; that's why you should drink at practice so you're in the same state as a gig and can properly react...I've seen bands who clearly didn't drink at practice who got way drunk and I've never thrown a pint mug at anyone but I thought they deserved one...(I still didn't, but...)

[keith_h]

If your area is anything like mine there is so much overlap in the set lists that most players should be able to drop in and be good enough from the start. Some rehearsal is needed to discuss timing, endings, breaks and to go over new material but it shouldn't take months.  
 
Another thing I have had happen in multiple bands is after a couple of private rehearsals we do some public ones via open mic's. These gave us a chance to see how everybody reacts and how our stage sound is in the real environment. Since it is an open mic nobody expects anything close to perfection so there is less stress on the performance. It also wasn't uncommon to get booking offers from the club after it was over.    
 
My feeling is if you feel stressed with a band's environment it isn't worth hanging around just to play. I've always used music as a release and if it doesn't do that then it isn't fulfilling its purpose.  
 
Keith

[terryc]

Been there with bands like that, unless you are all dot readers then it will never be 'ultra perfect', jeeze, it's a live band in a bar or wherever you are, if they want it sound exactly like the song it can be pretty boring playing it.
As far as mistakes go, when I saw Level 42 and they played 'Hot Water', to which they have been doing for 30 years, Gary Husband got the intro timing all wrong and Mark King stopped the song and re started it so if they get it wrong what chance have the rest of us have ?

[smokin_dave]

I was with a band for 10 years and we rehearsed maybe twice during that whole period to learn a few originals and we played shows three to five times a week.
 
Another band I was with demanded two rehearsals a week with maybe 1 show booked a month.I didn't last long with that band especially when I was given a song to learn,learned it and 4 rehearsals later this band could not perform this song properly.I had it down in an hour.Needless to say I made my fond farewell to this group post haste.

[bigredbass]

For me it always depended on the players.
 
I was in several great bar bands that essentially operated where we took home a 'work-up tape' for next week.  You learned your part, they really did learn theirs.  Got to the gig, everyone's 'radar' warmed up, and we'd work in those tunes (usually 3 or 4) thru the night, and it worked fine. After some months, you had a playlist long enough for two nights or more.  Handy and relatively painless.
 
I was in a couple 'we gotta rehearse all the time' bands.  Some of them needed to woodshed 25 hours a day (still wouldn't help .  . ), and we didn't gig a lot, so 'the nerves' would set in while the leader was going thru his Rolodex of tunes, and he'd invariably call a lot we NEVER rehearsed.  Brilliant . . . . In a way, it seemed like weaker players always wanted to rehearse a lot more:  Confidence issues maybe, stage fright (which has never happened to me), who knows?
 
Then there's always the band where (insert name here) where ONE guy was always drunk/high, insisted he played WAY better that way.  Next . . . or my particular favorite:  I can't drink (I get real sick real fast) and I was always afraid of drugs, so a few times, I was the ONLY straight person on the gig, and I'd let go as I wouldn't 'party' with them.  Puh-leeze . . . . only to be replaced by a user who couldn't even tune his axe.  Did wonders for my confidence.
 
But then on the other hand, I got more than a few gigs where they'd 'had enough' of the drunk I was replacing.  In one case it was a real gas, as it was a great band (save for that guy), they knew their stuff backwards and forwards, and I knew the tunes already, so it was really 'plug and play', so I guess the pendulum would come back to be from time to time.  But then again . . . he was picked up by a nationally touring artist (who he's still with, but they're all big-time abusers).  Whaddya do ?
 
Most bands I was in, we all had 'day jobs', so really that cut down on rehearsing more than anything.  Had I had more chances to only play, I was never averse to rehearsing IF it was positive and everyone had their 'game face' on.
 
Plus anymore, I've completely and utterly lost any desire to ever play in a bar again.  Ever.  My 'want to' has been eclipsed by 'I'm breaking this axe over the head of the first $&#R$^@# that gets in my face'.  I honestly don't trust myself not to go ballistic and start drumming heads or anything else I can get a piece of, so it's just not an option ever again. I'm way too old to get thrown in jail for a bar fight.
 
So I suppose Nature has run its' course.  It seems the ironic thing is all I actually do is rehearse anymore, playing around the house.  But then, I never have a drunk guitar player to hassle me, and the ice machine doesn't make any noise !
 
Joey

[mtjam]

Ah, rehearsal...
 
I joined up with a band last year that practices each week. Previous to that, I don't think I had regularly rehearsed with a band for over 10 years (despite gigging regularly with many different musical projects during that time). I already knew a lot of their material when I joined, and within a month or two I knew everything else that they do. We are only gigging 1-4 times a month. Did I mention that I have to drive almost 30 minutes each way to get to practice? We have some fun moments, but it seems like a bit much at times.
 
For me, I like when I get calls to fill in on bass for bands. They call me, I show up, play, and get paid. There are no rehearsals. We have a lot of fun playing together, and we sound pretty good! Could we sound a lot better if we rehearsed regularly? Sure!
 
I like this quote from the previous post:
 
I was in a couple 'we gotta rehearse all the time' bands. Some of them needed to woodshed 25 hours a day (still wouldn't help . . ), and we didn't gig a lot, so 'the nerves' would set in while the leader was going thru his Rolodex of tunes, and he'd invariably call a lot we NEVER rehearsed. Brilliant . . . . In a way, it seemed like weaker players always wanted to rehearse a lot more: Confidence issues maybe, stage fright (which has never happened to me), who knows?
 
I play in 3 or 4 different bands right now. I enjoy the fact that, most of the time, my bandmates do a great job and they can count on me to fill in for them on short notice. I find that my band that rehearses regularly is the one that seems like the hardest work. Perhaps they take themselves too seriously (?). I have learned from my freelance bass playing to listen carefully to what other musicians do. From that experience, I think I've gained a reputation as someone people call when they need a bass player for a gig.
 
I'm not knocking rehearsal at all, but I find that I would much rather be at home with my family after a long day of teaching, instead of rehearsing for some low-paying dive gig!
 
Many of the musicians I play with only need me to say, Let's play this song....it goes like this and then we play it. They can also show me the changes to a song at the gig or give me a setlist, and I can do the gig.
 
I am not a professional musician. Music has always been my main interest. I do play regularly at home, but my favorite time is when I am performing live for an audience. I feel blessed to be able to play music and connect with people.
 
Anyway, there's my musings on the rehearsal thing!

[gtrguy]

If you can put on a show the crowd likes, you are ready...

[David Houck]

Some thoughts off the top of my head.
 
Here's a different way of looking at it.  What is your expectation of the quality of performance of a band, or soloist, that you, and perhaps a spouse and/or friends, are paying money and taking the time to go see.  Even if it's a local club; if you arrived early so that you could get a table close to the stage because you're there to see a performance; you're not there just to drink beer and watch sports on the big screen behind the bar while the band is playing.
 
If it's a Friday night, and you and your spouse are driving into town for dinner with friends and then going to a venue specifically to see a band perform, what is your expectation of the quality of performance?
 
I suspect the answer to this question will not be the same for everyone, and may, quite reasonably, vary widely.  Personally, my expectation is probably fairly high; which is why I would like to get the overall quality of my own playing up significantly before I take it out of the rehearsal room.
 
But for others, Friday night might be more about being with friends at a bar that also happens to have a band playing; and the quality of the music isn't the primary focus of the evening.
 
The answer to the question might also vary in relation to the cost.  If it's $10 to get in the door, or $15, or $20, does that change the expectation of the level of quality in the performance you're devoting your Friday evening to.
 
Personally, I don't have enough natural talent to go out and play without a lot of preparation.  I like that quote that Wolf posted above from Harry James:
 
If I do not practice one day, I can tell the difference.
 
If I do not practice for two days, my band can tell the difference.
 
However, if I do not practice for three days, everyone can tell the difference!
 
And that guy had tons of natural talent!
 
 

[sonicus]

Dave , I am glad that you can relate to that as I can as well in particular with brass instrument  playing but also on bass guitar.  
 
 Harry James really had amazing talent and awesome dedication to excellence and I have read stories that he was a nice fellow to work with and for. At a young age he was in charge of a large circus band and was playing and reading truly pyrotechnical selections of music. Later he joined the Benny Goodman band and after that lead his own band  giving a few later famous young talents a break to success . Singer Frank Sinatra was one of the those and then later gave singer Helen Forrest a better gig. He also gave away several Gold Plated Selmer Paris trumpets that were made in France to some of his fellow trumpet playing band mates as well . What a swell boss !