Dumb Questions

[rockbassist]

Here are a few questions that I'm sure that some of you may find dumb but I am asking them just the same.  I have had my Epic 5 string for several years. I love this bass. It might not be the $10,000, $20,000 or $30,000 bass that some of you play, but it is still the best sounding and best playing bass that I have ever owned. My first question is given the fact that according to the Alembic website, Epics use Aelmbic's most expensive activators ($1,200) why is a Series II more than 3 times as expensive as an Epic? What is the difference in sound, features, etc? Is there a real difference or is it more perception, personal preference, etc? I live in the Boston area and have never seen anyone else playing an Alembic. Many experienced players have never heard of them.  Why is it that so many players, (especially famous players) still use Fender? Many are using Modulus, Pedulla, or Sadowsky. Is it that they have done a better job of marketing or are more likley to give out endorsement deals? Is it a numbers game?  There are simply more of thise basses on the market. I have several 1970's era Fenders. They sound great live and in the studio. I still like the sound of my Alembic better but only slightly better than my 1978 Fender Jazz. I'm just curious as to why some basses are much more expensive and whether or not players and the audience can really hear the difference or is it just perception? Is it possible that it is purely ego on the part of the player? Can almost any bass sound good if it is eq'd properly as was recently suggested to me?

[811952]

A few thoughts on the matter, if you will:
 
An Alembic bass demands something of the player that other instruments don't: precision.  
 
There are many very good sounding basses out there that have one or two signature sounds.  Alembics will easily (once you've gotten your brain around the filter system) get endless combinations of very good sounds.  The filter system is not something many people will take the time to learn how to use though.
 
An Alembic has very little cache with the general public.  Playing one likely won't impress that girl in the second row, but a vintage Fender might, because that's what all the rock guys play..  
 
They're really heavy.  At least mine is.
 
They're really expensive.  At least mine was.
 
They can be awkward enough to play that you need to develop a different technique to play one, at least that's the case with my Long Scale Point..
 
Just some thoughts that come to mind.  It always is a letdown when another bass player doesn't immediately recognize that my Alembic is the best bass he/she'll ever play.  Then when they pickup THEIR bass and realize it has exactly ONE sound and get that look of something's missing I always feel *much* better (or at least *much* more smug)..  
 
John

[wayne]

Kevin-
 
A quick point on your comment about the cost of the electronics.  All Alembics using activators are using the same pickups.  The brains driving those pickups vary from model to model.
 
The Series instruments are in a totally different league.  The electronics are a completely different design and, by themselves, cost in the $6k range - not that you could purchase them separately.  But you can upgrade to Series electronics on several body styles.  Also, although every instrument gets Mr. Wickersham's blessing before it leaves Santa Rosa, the Series instruments spend MANY hours on his personal workbench.
 
I've played pretty much one of the entire line.  Yes, there is a significant difference in sound.  It is the perfect tone(s) for me and many others here.  It is not for everyone.  One of Alembic's goals is for every thing you do to the string to be transmitted to the amplifier - hence John's comment on precision.  You can't make a mistake on an Alembic - because everyone will hear it.  And this is especially true with the massive single coil pick-ups on the Series instruments.
 
Well. I rambled on more than usual.  I hope I helped.  If I made it muddier, my apologies.
 
C-Ya..........wayne

[glocke]

Im not going to touch the technical difference in electronics between an Alembic and Fender, Modulus, etc....There are others here who can talk about that better than me.  I do know what my ears and hands tell me however, and its that an Alembic is able to give me the sound I want, plus many others.
 
However, I also get a good sound or two out of my 64 and 72 jazz basses.  They are both good sounding basses in their own right, and I dont have to add any eq or anything to get them to sound good.  The key thing here is a sound or two....With my Alembics I can get many different sounds, most of which are usable.  For me personally, since most of the bands Ive been in do alot of improv, this comes in handy.    
 
Back to other basses, I have yet to walk into a music store and pick up a bass that was something I felt I had to have...whether it is modulus, sadowsky, etc..It could be that these stores were stocking the lower end of these models, but for whatever reason alot of these basses were lacking in something.
 
Economics are also a factor.  I can afford to play Alembics.  Im not rich by any stretch of the imagination,  but so far Ive been lucky enough to get two.  
 
Im not really sure how much money pros and more experienced players make, but given that I know a couple of guys that are pros (first call for studio work, first call for fill in situations, etc.)  that really dont have alot of money (one guy like this I know is 45 and lives with his parents, but gets killer gigs), I suspect alot of these people play what they can afford for one thing, but you also have to consider that endorsements, higher production levels, and LOTS of advertising come into play.  Just look in BP magazine...how many warwick, modulus, etc. ads do you see compared to Alembic ?
 
As to why some are so much more expensive, lots of reasons, but few are probably  valid.  Outside of Alembic, and maybe one or two other companies, I have not seen or played any instrument that I would feel good paying thousands for.
 
Also, alot of lower end bass models by big name companies look and feel lower end, even though your still paying big money for them.
 
I havent played every bass in Alembics line, but I have played a few, and even the lower end models show the same care, attention to detail, and craftsmanship that higher end models do.  How many other companies can you say that about?
 
As far as ego having a factor in this (kind of baited question, but I'll bite), I can see how that can be percieved by others.  When I show up at open mics with one of my Alembics I know people say shit, but who cares?    Your here once on this planet and thats it.  You may as well enjoy yourself...

[82daion]

Why is a Series II more than 3 times as expensive as an Epic?
 
-Neck-through construction  
-Semi-hollow body  
-More and fancier woods used  
-Series electronics  
-Gold hardware  
-Inlaid logo
-Continuous wood backplates
-Bridge with sustain block
-side LEDs
-Omega body
 
In short, the Series II has a number of features as stock that are normally extra-cost options on lesser basses.
 
As for the difference in sound, the Series electronics offer a much broader timbral palette than the Epic's bass and treble controls due to the filter/Q setup. That's not to say that the Epic sounds bad-it doesn't at all. It's just comparatively limited in terms of the sounds that can be had out of it. Also consider that the Series II is neck-through, and has a semi-hollow body, which lends it a different basic sound than the solid-body, set-neck Epic.
 
In my experience, the tone offered by the Series electronics is about as clear and uncolored as you can get from an electric bass with magnetic pickups. The Epic/Orion/etc. still have this quality, but it's not present to the same degree.  
 
Can almost any bass sound good if it is eq'd properly as was recently suggested to me?
 
In short, no. EQ isn't a magic panacea for bad sound from a bass. While it's possible to de-emphasize unpleasant frequencies with it, it won't change the fact that you're starting with a bad sound to begin with. As the saying goes, garbage in, garbage out, and with any Alembic bass, you can be confident that the fundamental tone is not garbage.  
 
As for why you see so few Alembics compared to other brands, I can posit a few guesses. Other than Stanley Clarke, there aren't really any big-name players that use them these days, so their profile in the public eye is much lower than that enjoyed by companies like Fender and Warwick. They don't advertise (although they have in the past), so that's another route for awareness that's closed off. Combine these things with the high price that new Alembics command and their rarity on dealer walls, and it's easy to understand why it's unusual to see one in the hands of a player. Also consider that, in the 36-year lifetime of the company, Alembic has made between 14,000 and 15,000 instruments. Fender probably makes that many in a couple of weeks.  
 
Now, does the audience notice all of this? It's very difficult to say, because most people in the audience aren't going to be listening that closely for the bass, much less for any of the nuances of tone that we players obsess over. If you're happy with your sound, though, you'll play better and be more relaxed onstage. With that happening, you'll be better positioned to entertain the crowd, which is what really matters in the end. An Alembic just happens to be a really good tool for getting to that point. ;-)
 
Hopefully this helped answer some of your questions.

[mike1762]

The Alembic sound (to my ears) is wider than other basses and the tonal palette far exceeds anything else.  The size of the palette is determined by the electronic package.  The brush in this analogy is the PU I suppose (series vs activators).  
 
If any of my bands had made it, would I have eventually migrated towards an Alembic?  Probably not.  My Signature Sound in those days was a punchy mid-range frown that Alembics simply are not designed to produce.  The first time I tried to record with an Alembic, it was a disaster.  I was fighting the nature of the instrument.  I was trying to get the frown tone and was aggressively attacking the strings.  That approach was fine with my Stingray, but it does not work with an Alembic: I had to change my whole technique.  As such, they are not for everybody.  As I've gotten older, I've discovered musical genres other than METAL and I appreciate the versatility of an Alembic.  
 
I think Greg is right when he suggested that most pros (notice I did not say famous) probably can't afford an Alembic!!!  The starving musician stereotype is an unfortunate reality.  The high profile players certainly could afford one, but most Famous Rock Star bassist are going after 1 tone that a Fender or Music Man will produce with a minimal amount of fuss.  I think this is why most Alembics are in the possession of a group of musicians who appreciate extraordinary quality but make their living doing something other than music.  
 
Can the casual listener appreciate the difference between an Alembic and something else?  An interesting experiment would be... can we???  If I recorded a tune in triplicate using 3 different basses, do you think you could pick out the Alembic???  On the other hand, can you name any other bass that would allow you to record a song in triplicate using 3 different USABLE tones from the same instrument?  Anybody want to put that to the test?  Ground rules should be that all tweaking must be done from the bass... your amp must be set flat (or at least the same) for each pass and all the other tracks must stay the same.  Lets do it!!!

[dannobasso]

Someday I will order a series 2 but not right now. My needs are more than filled by my Spoilers, Excels, Essence, Distillate etc. Too many tonal choices for my live situation with the upper level ones. As some can tell, I love this make. I get a lot of crap from those who don't understand my devotion to craftsmanship, playability and tonal range despite the cost. But  hey, gotta love the leds! Another thing why the price is not an extreme factor for me, they continue to improve in their craft as the build count rises. Other makers are always looking to the past and offering relics for outrageous prices for Mr. potato head instruments that   emulate when mass production was not the way of the industry. For those with a preference, I get compliments all the time on my live sound. For others, it still moves their heads up and down and the horn salute is given. For recordings, thats out of my hands once the track is down. But I've learned not to get upset when a plug in or two is used. People are just doing what they know. My basses of late have the Rouge/Europa/Distillate package so I can get what's right for the venue right away with out having to constantly go back to the amp. Need more bottom, hit the switch, take down the top, hit the switch, need something more for an intro or specific tune, its all at your fingertips. And as others have stated, we can't hide behind bad technique with our basses. That's something extremely humbling for bassists that try my axes and the result is a bit too real for them. They won't accept that the floppy, buzzy, sloppy is them and not the bass. If nothing else, I'm a better player and technician since I went from the household brands to Alembic. Oh and I sacrificed a hell of a lot over the years to obtain them too. Anything worth having is worth working for.

[hieronymous]

Interesting idea Mike! I might have to give that a try...

[mike1762]

Mr Potato Head instruments... I love that.  
 
Harry, the next time I have more than a day off I'm going to do it.  It will be interesting.  Any thoughts as to where to post the MP3s???

[basstard]

It is true that Alembics are expensive. It is also true that they are well worth it. Unfortunately it's also true that many musicians simply can't afford them...
 
But that's when a 2nd hand market comes in handy ;-)
 
I'm not a pro - I do gain some income by playing the bass and I've recorded 3 albums so far (one of them is still in the making but my bass lines are already there) and will record one more this year and - hopefully - many more in the future but I still need my day job to stay alive. I can't afford a new Alembic and I doubt I ever will. I can't afford a $6600 Essence 5... but after some sacrifices and with some help of my wonderful family who offered to borrow me some money, I'm able to afford a used one for less than a third of that!
 
Which means... Actually, a lot of musicians can have Alembics if they want!
 
But to want one, you have to appreciate one. I do. I was fortunate enough to lay my hands on several beautiful specimen (a Spoiler, two Epics - a 4 and a 5, 2 Orion 5s and a 1st generation maple Essence 5) and each of them gave me the sound I crave, and felt in my hand just like I want a perfect bass to feel. I enjoyed every single Alembic moment tremedously and always knew Alembic basses are perfect for me. I know my technique is far from perfect but somehow I manage to get really good sounds out of those beauties :-) That must be some kind of a personal thing, a subtle diffence between different players' techniques - e.g. I really like Music Man basses, I love hearing them on recordings and live but, somehow, a Music Man have never sounded right in MY hands, and I've played several. Same for Fender P-Basses - when I play one, it always sounds cr*p while in hands of other bassists Precisions produce some great classic tones (John Deacon was my 1st bass idol and the inspiration for me to pick up the bass). But with Alembics (and also Spectors but to lesser extent), it's a different story. When I borrowed an Orion 5 for about 2 weeks and played several rehearsals with it, I got great comments on the sound. The difference between the Alembic and my Nexus which is a very very good bass itself was simply massive. I also played a gig using it, and my gf who attended the gig later said that the bass lines, especially one simple but rather pretty two-handed tapping part, finally sounded just like they should. And these were the words of someone who had never played any instrument until May this year when I bought her a harmonica (she always wanted to learn it)! This does mean something, doesn't it? I'm not even mentioning the comments from my bandmates and one bassist who attended the gig.
 
I will record the bass on the oncoming album using borrowed Essence 5 (that maple one) and Epic 4 (I don't know anyone with a fretless Alembic so the fretless parts will be recorded using my Malinek 5... but with Alembic strings :-)). I know they will sound just right.
 
I'll record the next album (planned for the next year) and every other to come with my own Alembic.

[ulf]

I see it this way:
There are many good bikes, especially from Japan.
But a Harley Davidson is something special.
It is a separate league.
It is the feeling of exclusivity.
And so it is at Alembic. I am pleased that Alembic is played by not all bass players in the world, because that shows how exclusive a Alembic will be.
After many years of break, I look again in January 2008 after a new bass around.
I've tried many, Fender to Warwick
(a Warwick Streamer Stage1 I have also bought, but sold again) but no bass comes anywhere near to a Alembic approached. The quality of craftmanship, the noble wood and above all the sound and playability is absolutly unique, I think.
Okay, Alembic will be more expansive as the other brands. But I think the money is well spent in a Alembic Bass.  
And lastly, for me is a Alembic even something for the eye. Both the form as well as the wood (especially cocobolo) is unique.
I think a Alembic to possess, makes proud and happy

[jazzyvee]

This has been a very interesting read so maybe I can add my 50 pence worth. I'm really a guitarist who can play a bit of bass so for me I've never had the need to go through lots of different basses throughout the years. The only one that could have been called decent was the MM Sterling 4.
But I sold that a couple of years ago when I got my Elan4 and have not regretted it.
 
I've always been drawn to things that are different than the norm, and hearing stanley and his alembic was clearly different bass sound to what I'd heard on before that.
 
 When I first heard an alembic in the hands of Stanley Clarke it has been the only bass I've really wanted to own and once I got my SC Signature deluxe, all of a sudden I knew I'd found the voice I wanted for ME.  Since then I have really got into the sound of the bass and find that I am able to change sounds between, mid song or mid groove or whenever so that the music takes on a different sound. All my previous basses and all others that I have tried, only seem to have one or two at most sounds that are radically different.  Usually it sounds like just sound A with a bit more or less bass or treble Not different.
 
The alembic allows me to change the sound so radically it sounds very different. I love that ability to dial in the sound I want, then tweak it just that little bit and get it just right.
As for expensive, yes they are expensive and although I'd love a brand new series bass, the price and also the fact that I don't do enough bass gigs makes a new purchase an expensive plaything. So either I will wait till that changes or look for a reasonable priced used bass. I'm glad that at least some time in the past I was able to afford a new one and the used ones I have are still amazing instruments.
 
I really don't think most non-musician audiences can tell or care if you have an alembic or a fender bass or even if there is a difference in the sound. They just want to hear a good band play. So I think if most of us are honest we have the alembic because we like the sound and we want that sound, and we want an alembic. The audience is not in our minds when we buy these instruments. What they do notice is  your bass looks really nice.... it must be expensive.
 
I've had mixed messages from other non alembic owners about these basses. One bass player closed his hands in prayer and payed homaged to the bass, some have just said they are not worth the money and far too expensive, one said he couldn't get the sound he wanted out of an alembic, which was the marcus miller sound. I did a gig  doing marcus covers and he came and told me that I'd got the sound right.
 
Some have been pleased to see one and hear how they sound. One drummer I do gig with is always pleased when I turn up with my Alembic and Mesa rig, he just loves the sound. I never tell how much they cost, just confirm they are expensive and leave it at that. Maybe sometimes I tell the cost of the Series II as a reference  point.
I've never had any negative comments about the sound of any of my alembics and for me they are the ideal basses for me. I can get whatever sound I need from them. I just need more bass playing gigs to understand how to get that sound consistently at a gig.
 
I love the design, workmanship, feel and ethos behind how they came to be. I'm fascinated that all of my basses have the Alembic Family Sound yet they all sound like indivuduals with their own individual sound. Man are they pretty... well some of them hahaha... ~but thats personal taste.
 
Would I like them to become mass produced like fenders etc etc.... ?? hell No.. I like to be different and alembic instruments give me that ability. It's good to be one of a club of maybe 14 to 15 thousand. If it ever came to a take over scenario,  I'd rather alembic cease trading rather than be sold to one of the big boys. ( but that's maybe another discussion thread hahaha).
 
 
 
 
 
 to reach an alembic. I've only had 4 non alembic basses since the 70's

[jazzyvee]

This has been a very interesting read so maybe I can add my 50 pence worth. I'm really a guitarist who can play a bit of bass so for me I've never had the need to go through lots of different basses throughout the years. The only one that could have been called decent was the MM Sterling 4.
But I sold that a couple of years ago when I got my Elan4 and have not regretted it.
 
I've always been drawn to things that are different than the norm, and hearing stanley and his alembic was clearly different bass sound to what I'd heard on before that.
 
 When I first heard an alembic in the hands of Stanley Clarke it has been the only bass I've really wanted to own and once I got my SC Signature deluxe, all of a sudden I knew I'd found the voice I wanted for ME.  Since then I have really got into the sound of the bass and find that I am able to change sounds between, mid song or mid groove or whenever so that the music takes on a different sound. All my previous basses and all others that I have tried, only seem to have one or two at most sounds that are radically different.  Usually it sounds like just sound A with a bit more or less bass or treble Not different.
 
The alembic allows me to change the sound so radically it sounds very different. I love that ability to dial in the sound I want, then tweak it just that little bit and get it just right.
As for expensive, yes they are expensive and although I'd love a brand new series bass, the price and also the fact that I don't do enough bass gigs makes a new purchase an expensive plaything. So either I will wait till that changes or look for a reasonable priced used bass. I'm glad that at least some time in the past I was able to afford a new one and the used ones I have are still amazing instruments.
 
I really don't think most non-musician audiences can tell or care if you have an alembic or a fender bass or even if there is a difference in the sound. They just want to hear a good band play. So I think if most of us are honest we have the alembic because we like the sound and we want that sound, and we want an alembic. The audience is not in our minds when we buy these instruments. What they do notice is  your bass looks really nice.... it must be expensive.
 
I've had mixed messages from other non alembic owners about these basses. One bass player closed his hands in prayer and payed homaged to the bass, some have just said they are not worth the money and far too expensive, one said he couldn't get the sound he wanted out of an alembic, which was the marcus miller sound. I did a gig  doing marcus covers and he came and told me that I'd got the sound right.
 
Some have been pleased to see one and hear how they sound. One drummer I do gig with is always pleased when I turn up with my Alembic and Mesa rig, he just loves the sound. I never tell how much they cost, just confirm they are expensive and leave it at that. Maybe sometimes I tell the cost of the Series II as a reference  point.
I've never had any negative comments about the sound of any of my alembics and for me they are the ideal basses for me. I can get whatever sound I need from them. I just need more bass playing gigs to understand how to get that sound consistently at a gig.
 
I love the design, workmanship, feel and ethos behind how they came to be. I'm fascinated that all of my basses have the Alembic Family Sound yet they all sound like indivuduals with their own individual sound. Man are they pretty... well some of them hahaha... ~but thats personal taste.
 
Would I like them to become mass produced like fenders etc etc.... ?? hell No.. I like to be different and alembic instruments give me that ability. It's good to be one of a club of maybe 14 to 15 thousand. If it ever came to a take over scenario,  I'd rather alembic cease trading and keep the name to prevent others using it rather than be sold to one of the big boys and have them take over the name Alembic. ( I'm not tempting fate, but that's maybe another discussion thread hahaha).

[white_cloud]

No question is ever dumb!  
 
Its dumb to NOT ask question because that way you will never learn anything!
 
My 22 yr old Persuader sounds awesome in any circumstance I can place it. Its not a Series 1 or 2, and it may not sound like one, but, man, it sounds great anyway! I have never played it live yet without someone making a comment about it!
 
Thats what Alembics are all about for me!
 
John.

[oujeebass]

The cost of Alembics do cloud the water. Its unfortunate that they become symbols of excess when they are not. Just as the typical Ferrari owner dilutes they true value of the car. It was built to be the best.