Author Topic: New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)  (Read 1683 times)

edwardofhuncote

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2015, 03:55:34 AM »
Finished up the interior work, and re-glued the top on Dad's bass last night. (some of) These clamps are homemade, customized for exactly this job. Working on 6-foot tall violins presents some interesting challenges, one of them being - sometimes you have to improvise tools. I'm really happy with the way this one went back together. =)    

 

 

  Next step, the fingerborad is deeply grooved from years of play. Not sure if I want to plane that much wear out of it, and replacing it (with period-correct brazilian rosewood) is insanely expensive. The next best option is to rout and fill with some remnants of old fingerboards, which I've done before with mixed aesthetic results. This makes for a solid but obvious fix... at least the repair is underneath a string, and therefore not as noticeable.   Updates to follow.

growlypants

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 06:34:49 AM »
Wow!  Looks like you've done this kind of work before, haven't you!!?   (Excellent, and just kidding on your experience.)
I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

sonicus

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2015, 08:14:51 AM »
Such a view of the clamping in this glue process is wonderful . I really appreciate being able to see the process of this restoration . I love those clamps !  
 
  Wolf

edwardofhuncote

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2015, 06:06:04 AM »
Spent some more time in the shop the last couple nights. Decided to tackle the fingerboard issues first? Dad?s cousin played semi-professionally for several years, and though the fingerboard shows it, the rest of the bass is in almost mint condition. He must have taken very good care of it. Here?s what I started with.  

   

  Rather than try to fill all those grooves in with some strips of rosewood, I decided instead to just plane them out, which also gave me a little steeper angle for the bridge. There really wasn?t much relief in the neck, like maybe a 1/16?? which is about what you need. Most of these old Kays that have been strung up for 50 years with high-tension steel strings are bowed about like a ski, but this one has been de-tuned for 30+ years, and had wound gut strings. (the wire windings by the way, are why this fingerboard got so chewed up) After a couple hours of block planning, and constantly checking for relief or high spots with chalk, then comes finish sanding. I like to wet sand ebony and rosewood with 600-grit, and follow with 0000 steel wool.  The final polishing step, I use MinWax Finishing wax; it?s a petroleum based penetrating wax, rubbed in cross-grain, then buffed longways. Looks like this when you?re done.  

  Did the same treatment to the tailpiece. That ?Kay? badge is an aftermarket, supplied by the fine folks at Gollihur Music, upright bass specialists. Mark & Bob are great guys. Very much like our hosts here, Gollihur is a family business, and you quickly develop a personal relationship with them. So why did we need an aftermarket badge? Well, this bass is a legitimate 1951 Kay model M1-B, but it was made for Sears-Roebuck, so it bears no Kay ID markings other than a serial number.  

   Here?s the biggest goof I?ve made on the whole project. As I said, the old plywood was so dry and brittle that removing that top was a nightmare, even with painstaking care. I saved all these little chips, and glued them back in place, and later sanded the joints smooth, then touched up with a highlighter marker. Followed by a little brush of clear lacquer, and the fix is seen, but not noticed. Unfortunately, I?ll *always* know it?s there. Anyway? this is where Cletus tips his hand.  

  Here?s just a couple shots of the body showing what great condition it?s in? and what a mess my workbench is. Seriously, look at the birdseye maple in the back of this thing! It really pops with that blonde finish. Note how the spruce top veneer is darker? that?s not a trick of the camera or lighting, it really is darker.  

 

  Provided all goes well with fitting a new bridge and soundpost, I?ll be ready to string this one back up Thursday night? good thing too ? Dad has a gig on Friday!

ed_zeppelin

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2015, 03:54:43 PM »
Oh man, I can almost hear that baby (I can definitely smell it). Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd really love to slap it around. (Yeah, I said it.)
 
I love the fingerboard wear in this 350+ year old Venetian bass.  
 


 
 
That's fingerboard wear from three and a half centuries of guys like us. Makes y'think, don't it?
 
The Foghorn has me doing all kinds of honeydew chores today (got my whip and chair handy), so I keep popping in here to eyeball your achievement. I'm not saying that to elicit sympathy (though as a married man yourself, you may slather it on with a trowel if you feel so inclined. It won't go to waste, I assure you), but I feel the need to explain why this will probably be more disjointed than usual.  
 
Every time she sees me with this iPad, she makes a sound like a rhino getting ready to charge.
 
Good thing I speak wife fluently, because I've been able to escape injury thus far due to my cat-like reflexes and my ability to look busy when I ain't doing squat. Yes, dear. Coming, hon. (The Wife Whisperer abides.)
 
This ought to make your pappy happy: Rockstop endpin rest. Genius, no? I've got bruises from smacking myself in the forehead and going; why didn't I think of that? Plus, you can use it as a puck if some drunk gives you a hard time. Use the peghead of your P-bass to lay a slap-shot upside his skull ...
 
I marvel at your skills. It takes balls the size of church bells to take the top off an upright bass (Cletus suggests a sawz-all, if explosives don't work), much less putting it back on so beautifully. I think it's gorgeous, and I mean that in all sincerity.  
 
 
(Six hours later! She's driving me like a rented mule today.) Here's a soft case for way cheap.
 


 
 
I velcro'd a wedgie-pillow in Brunhilde's soft case to avoid the big neck crack thing, 'cuz Cletus doesn't like messing with neck blocks or dovetails, y'know. He gets old spoon handles from Sally's, drills a couple holes in 'em and ...
 


 
 
Sounds *half-ass to me.
 
Shadow 965 NFX upright pickup/preamp! Great sounding preamp, too.  
 


 
 
My (back's) favorite upright stand. The arms hug the waist, so you can play the bass while it's in the stand and you don't have to hold it up. Plus it's built like a tank. Everything's adjustable, so there's absolutely no wiggling (well, I do, but the bass don't).
 
*i told Cletus that you didn't need an illustration, but he insisted. This is half-assed:
 



edwardofhuncote

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 04:02:06 AM »
You're gifted Ed_Zep... I laughed all evening at your post.  
 
What's even funnier, or just wildly coincidental... the spoon-handle repair picture you posted, I am almost certain that is the neck heel of a New York made Epiphone, one of the finest, but notoriously fragile upright basses ever produced in the U.S. I have one in the shop right now (you can actually see it in the background) with a -you guessed it- a broken and BADLY repaired neck. Cletus struck again, this time with a carriage bolt.  
 
I got a Christmas party gig this evening, but I'm hoping to finish up Dad's bass tomorrow night.  
 
Stay tuned folks...

ed_zeppelin

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 01:36:50 PM »
I was just looking at an Epi-uppy on eBay yesterday! The damn thing has been brutalized,  probably the result of a gang-slapping.
 


 
 
I went back and looked again, and there's the heel crack we all know and love, and evidence of at least one neck reset. (Break out the Elmer's and carriage-bolts!)
 
At that price, he's not going to get that kind of money for it unless it's at gunpoint. And it's too bad because like you said, it's a venerable slapper and recording bass.
 
As for your Pappy's Kay, I found this site with detailed info on Kay uprights. (Engelhardt, King, White and American Standard basses are also documented on that site, to some degree.)  Kay basses are surprisingly rare, when you look at some of those production numbers. Note that blondes are the most valuable. As usual.  
 
Kay was the first company to produce an internally-amplified upright bass, using a microphone mounted on the inside end of the peg. (You can hear the great James Jamerson use one in his German upright on Heat Wave, My Guy and Dancing In The Streets, as signified by a U in that list.)  
 
The company that made the peg/mic was named AMplified PEG, later shortened to Ampeg.  
 
Jamerson bought one of Ampeg's first amps, a B-15, which was recently rediscovered and authenticated on PBS' History Detectives.
 
I'll take '#%?? nobody but bassists care about' for $200, Alex.
 
With any luck, your pappy's Kay is a Maestro model, as played by The legendary Bill Black on all those great Sun recordings (in fact, it was Bill Black's combo, until a young singer named Elvis Presley joined.)  
 
Bill also played with The Maddox Brothers and Rose, the Burnette Brothers, Jerry Lee Lewis (Great Balls of Fire!) the Everley Brothers and he was even a regular on Ozzy and Harriet until his tragic death from a brain tumor in 1965, at only 39 years of age. Bill was a real showman, too, climbing on top of his bass, twirling it and clowning around in general.
 
His Kay Maestro bass is now owned by Paul McCartney.
 
I truly wish I was there with you when you're doing CSI on that baby, checking details, measuring, comparing. It's one of my favorite things to do.
 
If you ever have to fill or plane string wear out of a fingerboard again, you might want to try an old violin repair technique if you have to take the neck off: cut tiny strips (with a wedge-shaped profile) from the back of the fingerboard where it hangs out in space - and nobody will ever see without an inspection mirror - and inlay them into the grooves. Alternately, you can grind a little off the underside of the fingerboard and mix the resulting dust with epoxy and spackle it on the grooves.  
 
Dan Erlewine's razor blade trick comes in handy for stuff like that.
 
This guy has a cool idea for a truss rod (kinda, since it only affects about half the neck). Great idea to keep in mind, though. Y'all's Summers back east play hob on wood, y'know.
 
We haven't discussed amplification, which is a whole different beast with uprights. I've done a lot of experimenting with transducers, mics and preamps over the years. I'd love to compare notes.
 
For recording, I've got a matched set of AKG C-1000 mics I like to XY at an area of the top corresponding to the end of the fingerboard, for a real punchy sound with minimal string noise. (The mics are actually aimed under the string and neck to isolate a square foot or so of real estate. I find that anywhere on the bottom bout tends to be too boomy.)
 
For arco, I use an AKG 414 aimed just inside the bass f-hole from about six inches away (the tiniest adjustments allow more or less air from the f-hole.) through Sony MDR7506 headphones you can hear just astonishing differences with the slightest differences in angle. That's where the God's own bass tone lives, but it doesn't work as well with pizzicato, in my astoundingly humble opinion.
 
For slapping, I really love the Fishman BP-100, because the ceramic-piezo transducers are attached by clips between the strings.  
 
 
 
They're the only system I know of that allows you to compensate for different string's sensitivity and volume - (though it's a bitch and a half to set up initially). Just a hair (you know what kind  ) can spell the difference between people straining forward to hear or the whole front row being blown backwards out of their chairs, ears bleeding from the concussion blasts.
 
Once you've got the placement right, everything sorta moves topside, if y'knowm sayin'. You're getting the exact tone of the strings themselves, rather than the sound of the bridge or bass body, as occurs with transducers mounted between the bridge and body, on or in the adjustment wheel or inserted into the bridge scroll doohickey.
 
I've found that aside from the B-band (astronomically expensive) ribbon transducer element, there doesn't seem to be that much difference in the sound of bridge mounted piezos. (Remember Barcus Berry hot dots?) the real difference is in the preamps. (He says. On Alembic's forum. To the collective duh from all the F2B Owners.)
 
Believe it or not, that little Shadow pickup/preamp referenced in my earlier tome is just killer for straight-up straight-to-amp drummer killer kinda thing. I know! That little thing? Yup.
 
David Gage Realist:  
 
Fishman Full Circle:  
 
Anyway, I'd love to hear your input about this stuff. Besides, if your pappy is anything like mine, simple is better. You can't trust mine with a remote of any kind because he'll just punch buttons on it at random, expecting it to do what he thinks it should do by human/digital osmosis or something. (Why is it always midnight on my VCR? was written with him in mind.)

ed_zeppelin

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 03:56:54 PM »
Duh. I forgot that you had given the model and serial number, and it is a Maestro, from 1951. Man, I've got the envy bad! That's the bass on That's Alright and Hounddog!  
 
It's that dreaded tenth commandment, the one about covetin' your neighbor's bass! I do fine with the others, but like most people here, the covetin' gets pretty hairy. It's not the first time I've envied someone over a blonde with a big bottom, though.  
 
I can't even look at Jazzyvee's collection without getting that covetin' itch so bad I can feel it in my hip pocket.

edwardofhuncote

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2015, 05:16:27 PM »
It's done and it turned out great!  
 
Dad just left here with his new/old bass. Both of us have gigs tomorrow night in opposite directions, but he's pretty tickled to be playing his first gig on this one.  
 
Pictures and post-game wrap-up tomorrow morning.

edwardofhuncote

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2015, 10:57:17 AM »
Like I was saying, last night Dad came over to pick up his new/old bass, but before he did, I spent the afternoon doing the final setup and restringing. This usually takes me about 3-4 hours depending on what I run into. (or how many goofs I make) Generally it involves fitting (or re-fitting) the feet of the bridge to the top of the bass first. I start with 220-grit adhesive-backed sandpaper, stuck to the top scratchy side up. Carefully scrubbing the bridge in the spot where it will eventually be seated, the feet slowly start to match the contour of the top. Note the penciled hatching on the bridge feet? that?s how you know when you?re done. Having height adjusters, this bridge required a couple extra steps. Those little adjusting thumbwheels are nice, but they add a couple more angles to the equation. Dad loves his adjustable bridge, but I don?t care for going to the extra trouble of putting them on these laminated basses. I can totally see it if you have a 100-year old carved bass that moves a ?? seasonally, but that?s just me.  

 

 

 

   Next, marking and cutting the new bridge to match the crown of the fingerboard, This is so all four strings are the correct height off the fingerboard. I have a homemade tool for doing this? it ain?t anything ingenious - just a stick with a pencil in the end. Holding the bridge in place, just mark the projected flat action, (give yourself a little room to fudge) then cut the arc on the bandsaw.  I didn?t stop to take a picture of that, but moving on...   After the bridge is fit to the top, then it?s time for slotting the bridge for string spacing. I like to wait for this step, so as to compensate for any left/right yaw of the neck set. You can move the strings toward either side of the bridge, while still allowing it to stay centered in place. Like everything else, there?s a set standard for this spacing, but to be honest, I couldn?t recite it to you. I set the dividers for something between 1? and  1-1/8? for ? size basses, and locate the slots, then cut the slots with different gauges of round files. Typically, just deep enough so that only half the diameter of the string sits in the slot. To further prevent binding, and potentially breaking a VERY expensive string, use a good ol? #2 pencil to lubricate the slots with graphite before final sanding. Like this:  

 

  The fun part: Restringing. I absolutely hate to see a pegbox with a virtual bird?s nest of haphazardly wound strings. For pity?s sake, take 20 more minutes, trim the strings, singe and wax the ends with a candle, and wind them with some general care? it?s not like you?ll be doing it again anytime soon. I use a string winder, made for bass keys, and attached to a cordless screwdriver ? zip-zip-zip-zip, done. Like this:  

  All this is the long way ?round saying, when strung up, Dad?s new/old Kay was fantastic? one of the most balanced sounding Kays I recall, and LOUD as all giddy-up, and it plays like a dream, if I do say so myself! I got the action dead-on perfect, with room to go up or down. Often I?ll also have to cut and fit a new soundpost, but at Dad?s request I just reused the old one here. Last thing, I transferred his David Gage ?Realist? pickup and docking port with volume knob (last years? Christmas present) over to the Kay from the Engelhardt.  

 

  The Innovation ?Golden Slaps? strings we put on should be stretched out in plenty of time for his gig tonight... here's what the whole bridge job looked like from the biz-niss end:  

    By the way ? the Engelhardt we had bought together - is now mine? here it is on the workbench now, waiting it?s turn to be set up.  

 

  Can?t say enough good about Engelhardt-Link. Little bit of bass trivia, after they bought Kay in 1969, they kept on building basses with the advertising slogan: ?made the Kay way.? Good bunch of people there, and it?s cool that you can call them up and get a real person on the phone who actually knows something about basses.

bigredbass

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2015, 02:35:34 AM »
Greg, this is just fascinating, and thank you for the step x step pictures.  I've always admired upright players, though it never interested me to learn to play one.  So for a rank upright novice, I know fiddles have this wood bar from beneath the bridge to the back, what does this do?  And, why do you wax the cut strings?
 
Good on Ya to take care of Dad !
 
Joey

bigredbass

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2015, 02:35:48 AM »
Greg, this is just fascinating, and thank you for the step x step pictures.  I've always admired upright players, though it never interested me to learn to play one.  So for a rank upright novice, I know fiddles have this wood bar from beneath the bridge to the back, what does this do?  And, why do you wax the cut strings?
 
Good on Ya to take care of Dad !
 
Joey

jon_jackson

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2015, 04:28:36 AM »
I agree with Joey. This is a great thread!
Jon
2011 Quilted Maple Dragon Wing, Anniversary Electronics
2007 Quilted Cocobolo Custom 5-string Tribute-body Bass ("Scarlet")
2006 Cocobolo SC Deluxe SS
2003 Quilted Maple Series II Europa ("Almost Twins")
1996 Flame Walnut Elan fretless
1994 Flame Maple Classico
1976 Walnut Series I SS

flpete1uw

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2015, 05:07:19 AM »
Greg,
 What a great honor to have such a skillset and shared interests with your Dad. Very nice work, you and your Dad are truly Blessed.
Peace,
Pete

susan

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New/Old Bass Day (for my Dad)
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2015, 10:33:49 AM »
Greg,
 
Really enjoyed all your posts repairing your Dad's upright. What a beautiful job.
 
Gotta love the custom made tooling...that definitely resonates with me :-)
 
Susan