ALEMBIC 20 ANNIVERSARY 4-STRING (89 AM 042)

[dela217]

Toby!

[olieoliver]

Lets see, thinking of spending a few thousand dollars on a bass. Buying it from someone you've never met, that is half way around the world, that doesn't even have the bass in their possesion. Then having the nerve to ask for a photo of the bass with a current newspaper.  
 
GEE what was Paul thinking, maybe if your going to gamble go to Vegas!

[lbpesq]

Ricky:
 
You may not be aware, but the I'm selling this bass for a (friend, relative, dead relative - pick one) and I don't have it here, it's in (Chicago, Italy, storage, etc., pick one), but it will ship to you as soon as payment is received  is a common scam used in internet sales.  I once responded to a craigslist ad for an old Martin D-28 at a fantastic price.  The guy explained that the guitar was in Chicago.  The seller was very responsive and seemed eager to make the sale until I emailed him that I had a friend in Chicago who could check out the guitar, pay in person and pick it up for me (Jonathan - you were going to get drafted if it worked out).  I never heard from the guy again.  So, Ricky, it's not unreasonable for a buyer in this environment to ask for the pic with a newspaper.  That particular precaution has been discussed here before.
 
Paul Clifton:
 
You know, I must of somehow missed your name in the Alembic History section.  But THANKS for starting this forum.  
 
Bill, tgo

[the_8_string_king]

What on earth are you all talking about? Angelboy didn't paid the money, the bass wasn't his yet, and it sounds like he hadn't even fully agreed to buy from what Ricky is saying. You all have no right to form an Alembic lynch-mob and talk about how you expect transactions to be carried out here - it is a free forum for ANYONE, including those simply looking to step in and sell an instrument. Get off your high horses and stop being so cliquey, and Angelboy stop chewing on those sour grapes and suck it up like a man. A sales isn't a sale til the transaction is complete. I certainly didn't start this forum as a closed club only for afficianados.
 
Boy, is this some SILLY SHIT or what?  The absurdity of these comments is self-evident, and no rational analysis is necessary... but y'know what, I've got a few short minutes...
 
What Alembic lynch-mob?  Oh yeah, the one you imagined/alleged.
 
(We have) no right... to talk about how we expect transactions to be carried out.  Sure we do.  On what rational basis do you support this claim?  Oh yeah, YOUR WHIM.  In fact, you have NO RIGHT to tell us what we can or can't do... DO YOU?
 
Free forum... actually, it costs money.  And those who pay for it and those who are responsible for moderating it have every right to expect some minimal civility and standards -DON'T THEY.  I'm confident this forum wasn't intended to exploit and/or yank it's members.
 
Get off our high horses...  we're not on any; you on the other hand... well, if you can't see the sun, my pointing it out isn't likely to help.
 
Suck it up like a man.  Angelboy has every right to be pissed off... and more than just cause.  I would say any fool can see this -but evidently I'd be wrong.
 
So in conclusion, your comments are ludicrous, insulting, and not worthy of consideration.  But hey, like Bill said, thanks for starting this forum!

[killergroove68]

Since you're all so smart let me ask you 2 questions:
 
 
If i would take a picture of the bass with a newspaper would that guarantee that i will send it after i get the money?
 
If i wanted to cheat somebody would i write that the bass is from a friend?
 
If anybody will answer one of this questions with yes, there is nothing else to say since intelligence is a gift witch not every person has...
 
 
I did not ripp off anybody...!!!
 
I will ask the new owner if he wants to show it in this forum and tell from whom he got the bass!!!

[mica]

Actually, Paul started the original Alembic club when it was on Yahoo along with Mik. After a while, the Yahoo structure was changed (along with a mishap where the whole Club was deleted at one point) and the membership grew to the point we needed a more robust forum, so we started hosting our own.  
 
I don't see anything wrong with someone trying to get top dollar for their used Alembic. People call and email us at the shop to ask for the current market value, and it's not something that I can help answer since we don't sell the used ones (I wonder if people call other makers with the same question?). As far as I can tell, this forum probably has the highest collection of Alembic buyers as you'll find now, so it seems like a great place to ask the question.  
 
While I agree with Bill that the selling for my friend is one of the oldest scams, it's disappointing to me to see some of the civility I've become accustomed to here breakdown. I reckon it's more appropriate to help educate someone about your concerns, especially when it's obvious that there may be a language barrier.
 
There is no requirement that someone posting on our Forum have an interest in becoming part of the community. If they want to, that's great! It's always fun to meet new people and exchange ideas. If you want someone to join the community, make sure you make them feel welcome and invite them to participate.
 
But it's also nice to help someone sell their beloved Alembic to another understanding home, even if that's all they ever do here. Hey, you might even find your next Alembic this way.

[hydrargyrum]

I think the purpose of the picture was to prove that you actually had the bass in your possession, and had not lifted the pictures off the web (it happens fairly often on ebay).
 
As for your second question, well Bill pretty much explained that as well.
 
It simply comes down to this, if you agreed to sell the bass, and Angelboy agreed to pay on the condition that you could produce the requested picture, and then you refused to sell because you later received a better offer, then you broke your word.  I don't know if this is the case or not (but it seems to be the impression people have got), and frankly don't care.
 
A couple of years ago when selling a Skylark I agreed to sell at a certain price only to receive better offers literally minutes later.  I did the gentlemanly thing and sold it as agreed.  It hurt, but it was the honest thing to do.
 
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on August 23, 2007)

[pclifton2004]

Aw, Mica remembers me, even if i am not in the Alembic History. Thanks for stepping in with a calm, reasonable voice, Mica.

[lbpesq]

Ricky:
 
Since I bought my '76 Series I guitar on ebay, I have seen it show up at least twice more in fraudulent listings using the same pics from the auction when I bought it, one time claiming to be in Germany.  I originally came to this forum when I won an ebay auction for the October 2002 COTM, Dragon Magic.  Shortly after the auction ended, Mica emailed me to warn me not to send any money as the auction was fraudulent and Dragon Magic was still with it's owner.  Olie (olieoliver, above) has a bass that seems to show up in a scam auction at least once every 6 weeks!  The request for the pic with a newspaper at least proves the seller really has the instrument.  Internet horror stories are rampant.  It's one thing to trust a stranger when you send $15 or $20.  It's another matter entirely when you're sending along $2000 or more.  A little caution is completely understandable.
 
Bill, tgo

[dannobasso]

No horse (they don't have brakes) but I do listen to Lynch Mob, prefer Green Tea to sour grapes, teach special ed and marching band so the right and the left are clearly defined, and care passionately about Alembics. Maybe too passionately. If I had a wife I'd be maimed or divorced.  
 
I visit this forum several times a day and always check new threads and postings. I follow each FTC with gusto. Do I agree all the time with all views? No. Have I been agitated by postings? Yes. Have I bought and sold through this place? Yes. Sometimes made out too well and sometimes not but I still do have expectations that people here are of a higher caliber.  
Passion is something that is shared here. The prospect of obtaining a dream instrument can make one a bit anxious and edgy. (Meditation helps as do long walks listening to audiobooks about European history. ) So words are typed that maybe should be left awhile before posting. I often type a response, read it over then cancel it. Opinion expelled, moved on, no harm done.
 
On a very positive note: A prominent member agreed to sell me an instrument at a great price AND agreed to wait over a month for my cashflow to improve. I emailed him after seeing prices higher than the agreed price and said if he wanted to get a better price for it, that was ok by me. Cash is king right? The seller remained steadfast to his word and the transaction will take place in a few short weeks when folk who owe me over $2000 get with the program.  
Oh, btw Mica, very glad to read your views and see your photographs again. Glad to have you give us your extremely valuable time. How my Opaque babies doin?

[bsee]

Just to clarify an apparent misunderstanding...  
 
I never suggested that people coming here needed to become part of the community before selling an item.  All I pointed out was that a new arrival who is only here to sell something and disappear shouldn't expect people to throw money at them without safeguards in place for the transaction.
 
If I were going to buy or sell with guys like Bill or Danno, I would have no problem shipping before the check arrives let alone clears.  That's the power of community.  On the other hand, I wouldn't make a purchase that wasn't protected through paypal or a credit card with someone like Ricky who has no history here, nor would I ship until payment was completely cleared.  That's not because I think Ricky is a scammer, but because he is an unknown party with no history of dealings here.
 
There's a big difference between exercising caution in a deal with an unknown party and calling someone a crook or liar.  Those who take offense at the former make people wonder if they are really on the level.  
 
I recently sold a bass to a man with minimal internet experience.  He wanted all sorts of safeguards in place for his money to do the deal, but when I asked for similar protections for my instrument, he became offended that I didn't trust him.  I was very spooked by this, but Mica's intervention made the deal go through.  There are still people out there who just aren't savvy about the ways of long-distance transactions.  It takes significant care and patience to separate the honest but naive sellers from the scammers.

[alembic_doctor]

Same thing happened to me.  After I bought the Sweet Comfort Bass.  I was sent an email with a secind chance offer to buy the bass I had already bought.

[angelboy]

This guy is a jerk off. He knows what he's done and what deal he's broken - greedy people get what they deserve.
 
End of!

[nathanpatoubass]

Hi to all,
I'm back from holidays today and, though I'm quite new in this Club, what I see in this forum is far from what I expected.
 
I'm based in France and I'm the new owner of the Alembic 20th : I bought it from Ricky before going on vacation abroad(on the 18th of August) and receipt it today (back from holidays).  
This sale was not a scamm. I can send some pictures if necessary.
 
Ricky, thanks for the transaction, the bass is exactly as I expected. You made me l'homme le plus heureux du monde.
 
Angelboy, sorry if you didn't finalize the transaction. For your information, there's a french guy, Paul D.,  in West of France who is also selling an 20th anniversary from 1990.(I was about to buy it from him when I discover the one that Ricky was saling). I don't know if Paul D. will accept to ship it out of France but if you want I can post you his email address. Worth trying?
 
Hope this message will clarify the situation.  
Best regards to every one
Franck

[David Houck]

Franck; this thread is an aberration, this club is full of people who love talking about and sharing information on Alembic guitars and basses.  We have members from all over the world; and most of us really like spending time here with each other.  There are posting guidelines in the Must Reads section; and most of the regular members tend to follow them.  There are the occasional infractions, but then despite the fact that we play the most amazing instruments in the world, we're still only human.  Anyway, congrats on the new bass!