Author Topic: Need advice (Read 184 times)

dubalbal · « **on:** April 23, 2009, 06:09:43 AM »

Hello Friends ,

I've been proposed a second-hand aguilar stack : preamp+amp : db 650 + db 728 .

It's all valve stuff !

Should i consider this offer seriousely ( in terms of sound ) ? Is it as marvelous as it is usually said ?

I know the db-750 and is simply great amp...so , will i hear a huge difference compared to the all valve preamp+ amp ?

Thank's

Alain

ps : ...that stack weighs a ton as well...

2400wattman · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2009, 06:30:00 AM »

If you can lug that weight around then it should'nt stand in your way of getting some of the BEST gear around. I've a DB-680 pre which I love and it gives the most hi fi/tube tone I've heared yet.

dubalbal · « **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2009, 07:51:23 AM »

...the weight is an issue in a way...i'm playing +/- 70 gigs a year , and probably a bit more this year...

I've been so impressed by the db-750 and the db-680 preamp should be even a bit better i presume...

Many says that 400 watts pure-tube stack sounds louder than 400watts mosfet... i thought 400 watts was 400 watts !?!? ...not louder , not weaker !

tubeperson · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2009, 08:01:54 AM »

This loudness issue arises becasue of the different way tubes distort(soft clippoing) versus transistors (hard clipping). There is more listenable wattage that can be tolerated via tubes because their type of distortion is not nearly as harsh as transistor distortion. This gives rise to the perception that Tube watts are somehow worth more than transistor watts. Many audiophiles (myself included) prefer tube equipment to reproduce sound than transistors. It should be noted that transistors have come a long way especially with MOSFET technology. Still tubes are like vinyl LP records and ants, you just can't kill them they will survive the nuclear holocost.

FC Bass · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2009, 08:13:42 AM »

I have a Mesa Bass 400, the old 6 6L6/6550 200 watt version.
It's way louder than my previous Ampeg SVT III pro (450 watt mosfet poweramp) I use(d) both amps with a Mesa/Boogie Powerhouse 1000 (talk 'bout heavy)

The Ampeg couldn't keep up with the two Mesa 85 Watt guitar amps (both with a single 4x12), to get through that massive Mesa guitar sound, tone settings required a lot more power than was available...

I tried it with another Mesa stack (2x10 and 1x15) plus a Markbass Little Mark 450 head, combined with the Ampeg/Mesa stack it got better but did not sound right...

I replaced both amps with a Mesa Strategy 400 (2x200 watt tube poweramp) and it sounded awesome!
Great sound and more than enough power with only the 2x10 and 1x15 set (!)

Bottom line: Tubes are louder ;-)

terryc · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2009, 08:17:12 AM »

All depends on RMS versus music power as well plus what tubeperson as added
I guess it will sound great but if you are doing that many gigs and Aguilar gear is heavy your spine may suffer(unless you have your own personal roadie..we all wish!)
Did all the heavy stuff..less is more..check out PJ bass amps..big hi fi sound from tiny clusters of 5 neo speakers

2400wattman · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2009, 11:12:41 AM »

Alain, if you must have the Aguilar pre then get it and get yourself a great high powered amp to go with it. Many in this forum like the QSC stuff for it's light weight and gobs of power. I use Crown amps because I have my mates help me lug it around. But if were just me, I'd be looking into the QSC stuff myself. Now if you've got a lot of money Lab Gruppen is ruling the world with their light weight high power amps, but that's if you have A LOT of money.

crobbins · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2009, 06:04:12 PM »

I have a 1971 Ampeg SVT all tube, 300 watts, and 2 4x10 cabs. Sounds great, but weighs a ton...

mario_farufyno · « **Reply #8 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:19:57 PM »

I never tried this two Aguillars, but I own a SVT-III Pro (Tube just in the Preamp) and tested an All-Tube B-15 Portaflex, both from Ampeg.

Despite the Power differences, I can tell you the Tone are quite different. All Tube Amps seems to compress and makes sound rounder than half-tube gear. May be this is the reason why they can sound louder (if you reduce transients, compressing the signal, you can push overall volume even more).

But you'll never find a light weight All-Tube Head, since they need large transformers to feed all Valves. This is why I choosed the SVT-III and that's why I'm thinking about replace it by a digital Power Section's equiped Head.

pacificshine · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2009, 05:52:43 PM »

Compressed audio will sound louder because of the lower dynamic range in the overall signal. You can get a good tone out of a tube pre-amp / solid state power amp combination. For example, if you use a good tube pre-amp such as the Alembic F-1X you can deliberately overload the pre-amp and then drive a solid state power amp that won't add significant harmonic distortion. I use this combination with good results, no matter what power amp is hooked up, and without breaking my back every time I need to move the gear.
An all tube system is great if you don't mind the pain and suffering or if you have someone to haul the gear for you. I think that with good experimentation you should be able to eliminate the tube power stage without sacrificing much of that sound.

elwoodblue · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2009, 06:33:37 PM »

I've been very happy with my F-1X into a Stewart World 2.1 power amp...it's amazing how light it is for 2100 watts.

dubalbal · « **Reply #11 on:** April 26, 2009, 02:53:17 AM »

Thank's for your advices friends , i'll go for the db-680! ...still wondering for the amp itself : db-728 all tubes or a QSC or Lab Gruppen...If the weight is clearly an issue , on the other hand , i wouldn't like to be disapointed by a solid state power amp...i don't really know what to do here...

I've also been told not to put an all tube stack on my loudspeakers : the vibrations may cause premature tube-failure ...

...difficult choice !

Alain

uncle · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2009, 06:17:24 AM »

Hi Alain, If I'm not mistaken, just like you I play a EBS-rig. I find this thread interesting so I got some questions...
Do you think the Aguilar will beat your Fafner?
Are you go for the Aguilar because of the sound or because of the outputpower?
You do use use the Fafner head with the 4x10 and 1x15, do you? Are you going to replace your cabs too?
I have never heard a Aguilar amp before, so I'm very curious what made you decide to go for Aguilar?

Greetz,
Dirk

briant · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2009, 10:47:17 AM »

I have a DB680 and want a DB728 so bad it is ridiculous. The 680 alone with a solid state power amp is amazing. Combining the two is tone nirvana.