Author Topic: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread  (Read 2129 times)

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2009, 06:46:57 PM »
I find it interesting that blazej has not listed his sound mixing equipment sources, nor does he even realize which Alembic models he'd found problematic.
 
This is ridicules...  
 
Funny as heck... He writes:
 
So please write me which model of alembic is most articulate and punchy
 
How bout tell everyone which Alembic models you worked with...
 
(Message edited by hendixclarke on June 26, 2009)

juggernaught

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2009, 07:36:42 PM »
I find particularly troubling that blazej confused authority over what the bass should do in the mix with what is basically a preference or expectation of what the bass should do.  He obviously has his preferences, exemplified by his cherry picking of artists i think who fit that bill but ignoring the masses of other successful bassists who don't quite fit his description.  I personally find my Alembic fits the role in which I like to contribute to the music almost perfectly (I think I prefer active Foderas a hair more).  And I never have had any complaints from any musician about my Alembic, including seasoned professionals, particularly from those who agreed with what type of role I wanted to fill.  That's why I play Alembic.  Because it fits great with the way I like to mix up with the guitars, drums, etc.  And I've had no problems hearing the right thing from the mix.  When I switch to other types of basses I feel like I have to tiptoe around to avoid getting the wrong types of sound (too boomy, too much bass).
 
I think that the types of bass roles/styles that blazej is attracted to are, among other things, descendants or relatives to the beatles, led zep, metallica, maybe r&b and blues, etc.  Pop rock.  And I can definitely can see the advantage of that since it's pretty much the dominant culture, especially in the states.  But the goodness totally subjective.  But for the way I like to play the music that I play (salsa, latin jazz, jazz fusion, afro fusion) the role of the bass is fundamentally different.  These different types of roles I think encourage a preference of one type of bass over the other.  That is not to say that salsa bassists don't use passive, but I honestly think their approach is different (how you place notes, fills, articulation, etc).
 
One good example is that there are some bassists who have a fit exactly in the mix, maybe blending with the drums or guitar approach while others prefer more of a steamroller (which some consider sloppy) approach.  Both can be very successful in their own right, and I'm not sure are inherently better in any particular context (ie dance vs jazz vs whatever).  I honestly think that these different roles encourage different instrument usage.  Not to say that bass playing is limited to these types of descriptions but i think these are at least two contrastable roles.
 
I might be wary of you as a producer because you might not understand where I'm coming from on the bass.  You might see this as a lack of experience on my part but I really think your preference in bass (type of sound reflecting role) is arbitrary.  And your derogatory bedroom players makes me think that you're even prejudiced against types of bass playing...
 
Another thing that's troubling about the active electronics arguments are assuming that the studio mixer has the same access to frequencies as the onboard electronics before it gets converted to the 1/4 inch signal.  I'm not expert, but this sounds false.  I know that's not true if you have anniversary electronics unless you have a stereo out.

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2009, 09:29:52 PM »
Years of solid recording - The tools of Stanley Clarke...
 

cozmik_cowboy

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2009, 10:10:31 PM »
If any instrument, be it a state-of-the-art Alembic, an 18th century upright, a pennywhistle, or obsolete technology from the 1950s with lousy build quality from the 1970s, gets lost in the mix, you don't need a different instrument - you need a better engineer.  
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2009, 10:50:03 PM »

lbpesq

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2009, 11:49:43 PM »
Blazej:
 
You're still arguing that Porsches are slow and sloppy handling when you try and tell us that Alembics hide sloppy playing.  I've been on this site for five years and have read many many posts from people who get their first Alembic and comment that it exposes their sloppy technique.  We hear over and over again from people who confess that getting an Alembic forced them to play with better technique, myself included. I do not recall even a single post where someone said the Alembic hid their sloppy technique.  Your claim of such is just wrong and everyone here knows it.  Please tell us how many Alembics (not other Alembic inspired basses) you've actually played, which models, and for how long.  I suspect the answer is none, or almost none and for a VERY short period of time.  And as for 60's Fenders, there's a HUGE difference between early 60's pre-CBS and mid to late 60's CBS instruments.
 
Bill, tgo

jos

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2009, 12:38:53 AM »
Hi Blazej! Who talks about recording only with a big bass drum or playing with a pick? We are talking about recording Alembic in a studio in general. In studios there are usually different productions going on not only certain kind of Rock music. Its important that you mention if you are talking about a certain song where you feel that the Alembic is the wrong instrument then its OK I do understand that. But otherwise?
 
J-O-S

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2009, 01:11:06 AM »
blazej_domanski,
 
Alembics has its own pure and distinctive acoustics sounds even without electric power.  
 
No other bass can do this for me.

karl

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2009, 04:12:41 AM »
Well, I have to say I hear a lot of sense in much (not all) of what Blazej has to say. I've definitely had that experience when called to sessions where I'll spend an hour with the engineer trying in vain to get a tone from my Alembic which will sit well in the mix, only to end up plugging in the studio Fender. In fact, I'm sure Blazej is right that the wide-band nature of the Alembic sound makes mixing these instruments far more problematic. I've found this when doing my own home recordings - without the correct tweaking, the Alembic immediately overpowers the mix, which makes everything sound muddy and ironically ends up hiding the Alembic in the mix. Plug in a Stingray and I can just play, no tweaking needed.
But this is the crux of the matter - I'd still rather use my Alembic, now I know how to use it in the studio. I've always been of the opinion that it's better to have those frequencies available and to filter them out if necessary, than not to have them and then to have to try to eq them back into the mix artificially at a later stage. So yes, the 'problem' is that an Alembic isn't really 'just' a bass, it's a full-range instrument. If you want it to do the job of a Fender bass in a mix, you need to be careful to filter out those higher frequencies that Fenders simply don't produce. And if that's too much hassle, then you're free to just plug in your Fender or Musicman . . .
But I'd definitely disagree with Blazej about active electronics hiding sloppy technique: nothing shows up every nuance of my playing like my Alembic - every touch, every slide, a badly trimmed nail - you can hear it all on the Alembic.

olieoliver

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2009, 07:04:44 AM »
I see 3 scenarios in the studio;
1. The studio hires me to do session work for their clients in which case I would play what ever the person at the console wanted me to.
2. The artist hires me to into the studio with the in which case I would play what ever the artist wanted me to. If they put control of that in the booth then so be it, the cat at the console has control again.
3. I or my band hires the studio to record our music, or demo CD in which case I?d play what ever I wanted to play. I would politely decline any suggestion to use another instrument.  
I would NEVER be rude though. I often wonder why the music industry is inundated with such rudeness. Not all but a LOT in the business can be and are very rude.
 
I guess I must be doing something wrong with my Alembic basses. I've had them in the Studio multiple times and never have I had a problem getting a good sound or making the engineer or producer happy.
 
 
OO

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2009, 09:07:12 AM »
If anyone is truly serious, and very concerned on this topic, I would give the following studios a call:
 
Electric Ladyland Studios in New York, and/or The Mad Hatter Studios in California. Those organizations lad many Alembic tracks and have a wider scope on sound.  
 
Sorry, I will not be giving my man (Blazej) a call to help me, nor will I recommend him to touch the controls of any Alembic for that matter. To do so, would be disastrous, for he was honest enough to say so.  
 
I love honesty.

briant

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2009, 10:59:10 AM »
There were so many statements made in that original post by our new friend Blazej that are either: a.) completely incorrect, b.) comparing apples and oranges, or c.) misunderstanding electronics... that I'm not even going to waste my time with this anymore.
 
Everyone stop feeding the troll.

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2009, 11:27:58 AM »
Let's put this to a vote Alembicans!
 
Those who agree, Blazej is a Troll say I...
Those who say Blazej is not a Troll, say Nay...
 
Hal-
 
(Message edited by hendixclarke on June 27, 2009)

elwoodblue

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2009, 11:58:54 AM »
I agree Briant,
 Hal, let's just play some music and forget about it.
 I wish I was at the gathering today...oh, that's another thread.  : )

hendixclarke

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Re: Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2009, 12:10:06 PM »
Wow, the torrance here is amazing.  
 
This guy could say: Alembics shouldn't had never been made, and people are cool...
 
I asked this guy to list his recording equipment  for gaining substantive facts with some references, and he produces nothing...
 
Yeah, I think he's a troll.