Yet another "Alembic in a recording studio" thread

[basstard]

Hey there fellow Alembicians,
 
There probably have been threads on this very topic but I couldn't find one. So there goes.
 
As I've written here once, I recorded an album last year, using 2 Alembic basses: an early Essence 5 (maple-bodied) and an Epic 4 - the latter for only one song (but it was still very useful). Both the studio owner and the sound engineer complimented the sound - they especially praised the evenness of response throughout the fingerboard and string-to-string consistency. They also loved the sound itself. It was one of the best, most renowned studios in Poland. However, last Saturday, during BassDays Warsaw, I came across a sound engineer who said he hated Alembics and only seemed to accept Fender basses as studio tools (he also slacked Music Man and Spector basses which I happen to like too). He mentioned Alembics' (as well as most other hi-end ntb active basses') dead midrange and lack of resonse to articulation. As a proof, he demonstrated his old Jazz Bass which was a lovely sounding bass indeed. OK, I agree with one point - the Jazz Bass is probably the most sensitive to articulation of all basses. However, I've noticed Alembics sit in the mix beautifully while the guy clamed otherwise. He  said that Alembic basses are only good for slap solos, and that's all.
 
I've also heard many stories about producers and recording engineers demanding P- and J-basses to be used during sessions. I'm not saying these are bad basses - I'd love to have a good old P-bass myself, not only is it and icon, it also has a sound that's hard to substitute in specific situations - but there is much much more to the world of beautiful bass tones than just Fenders...
 
So, the question is: what were your experiences in recording studios? Have you ever heard a producer tell you to put the Alembic back into the case and pull out a Precision or a Jazz? And have you ever met anyone claiming that Alembics suck?
 
I admit - that guy made me rather nervous as he didn't listen to my arguments (Jimmy Johnson, John Entwistle etc plus my own studio experience)... I'd love to hear about your experiences.

[jacko]

I've heard that engineers pull the 'must use a fender' card because they're either too lazy or inexperienced to mess around with the EQ enough to get a good sound from anything else.  As the artist, you have the right to play your music on the instrument that best captures the idea you have in your head. In my (admittedly)limited recording experience, the engineers have all been very complimentary of the Alembic tone once they've tweaked the desk.
 
Graeme

[FC Bass]

I've been in the studio recently (still am actually, were doing the mixdown now) and the engineers never heard of Alembic. They were extremely surprised when they heard them for the first time and keep complimenting me (one of the best bass sounds they recorded according to the Chief engineer, I brought and used both my Spoilers)
 
Engineers who keep demanding Fenders should go firetruck themselves and realize they are lazy firetrucks (imho)
 
In any situation for me it will be either an Alembic or another bass player, Alembics make the band sound better in my humble opinion.
 
Anyone interested in the recordings can send me an e-mail with Alembic in the subject line and I will send the mp3's (Metallica songs: Sad but true '88 Spoiler and Ride the Lightning '83 Spoiler with heavy distortion)
 
(Message edited by fc_spoiler on June 22, 2009)

[LMiwa]

It totally depends on who is paying who. If it's your band and you are paying the bill, then you decide which bass to use. If you are a hired gun and whoever is paying the bill insists on a Fender, then you play the Fender.
 
Many times it is simply a matter of economics. Because they see so many, the engineers should know exactly how to set up for a great sound on a Fender and can do so very quickly. It may (probably will) take them longer to get a good sound from your Alembic, simply because they don't do it very often.
 
If someone values the quality of the Alembic sound, they will pay for the extra set up time. If they don't, then they shouldn't have to pay for it.
 
Just my opinion...
 
Loch

[robertodiazj]

fc_spoiler:  
I am 98.9 percent sure that Jason recorded the black album with a Spector Bass and went on tour with the alembics. But I have to confirm, I have an old guitar magazine from September or October 91 were Jason commented on that. That magazine is at my parents house when I have the chance I can make a scan for you. Also A year and a half in the life of metallica seems to confirm this, I saw the whole video looking for images of his alembics and the first half doesn?t show alembics, just the second half  :-)
 
Also, sorry for the off topic
 
(Message edited by robertodiazj on June 22, 2009)

[FC Bass]

I would love to have that scan ;-)
I think he used more basses, there are some huge differences in the sounds (listen to the Guitar Hero tracks)  
Sandman and Wherever I may roam must be the Spector bass (distinctive sound) The Unforgiven sounds a lot like Alembic, but I've been told it's a vintage '57 Precision... Hard to tell...
 
There are Alembics (at least two) in the studio, look closely ;-)
In the vid of Nothing else matters you can see a black cone shaped headstock and the Elan 5 can be seen clearly. At the first line of the lyrics (So close, no matter how far) Jason is playing the Elan, most of the time it's on a stand. In the Year and a Half vid, @ the part where they show the bass recording of Nothing else matters, you can see the Elan 5 clearly on a stand behind Jason with it's original JPJ configuration.
 
Also remarkable, though possible gear owned by the studio and not used for the Metallica recordings: Huge amount of Trace Elliot bass  gear...
 
Some day I will talk to Jason and tear the info till the last detail out of him :-)
 
(Sorry for the off topic...)
 
(Message edited by fc_spoiler on June 22, 2009)

[mike1762]

I have had a home studio for some time now.  The first SEVERAL times I tried to record with an Alembic, it just wasn't happening.  I had all of my presets adjusted for my Jazz or Music Man and the tone with the Alembic was HORRIBLE!!!  After spending a LOT of time working with my Alembics, I finally came to the realization that I was fighting the nature of the instrument.  While I was trying to make it sound like a Jazz or Music Man, the tone of an Alembic is just fundamentally different (to my ears anyway). I should have just let the tone be what it was.  But since the tone didn't match the one in my head, it caused me a LOT of frustration.  I can only imagine what an engineer might think upon hearing one for the first time... probably a love them or hate them situation.  If someone else is paying the bill, there is really no time to reacclimate the engineer's ears.  I guess my point is that if you (or whoever) have a specific tone in your head, use the instrument that will get you there with the least amount of muss and fuss.  That's why most of us own so freaking many guitars.

[basstard]

I simply hate when someone says something's crap simply because they don't like it...

[jack]

I'm no pro, and what limited studio experience I have is me playing my music, on my dime, my time.  To further make the point that I'm talking out of my rear end, I don't think I've recorded on anything but an Alembic (or RT Renaissance) since high school, so I really have no basses (heh) for comparison.
 
Having said all that, I think Alembics are pretty incredible for an amateur hack like me, because I can go direct into anything and it sounds great, like an Alembic.  I go right into the board, or audio interface as the case may be, and I have total control over the bass from the bass.  And it always sounds great (the tone, that is.  The playing is another story).  The less stuff between the bass and the tape the better, for me anyway.  The engineers I've worked with have all thanked me for making things easier, giving them more time to make sure the drummer's 18 mics are all in the perfect spot, and the guitar player has the right combination of vintage tube, modern solid-state, mic'ed, direct, dry, wet, whatever.
 
Same with live- playing in NYC, where you never know what backline you're gonna find, it's so great to have a bass where I can just set everything flat on the head, turn the eq off, whatever, and the bass is gonna be alright.  Gives me more time at the bar.

[hendixclarke]

I would never drive my street bike on roads designed for dirt bikes.

[David Houck]

I just listened to Flip's new mp3's.  Very good recorded sound!

[briant]

I've used my JPJ several times in various recording studios and always get nothing but high praise for how great it sounds.
 
Anyone who insists on using nothing but a P or J bass is lazy and/or stupid.

[jeffbass4]

My story goes like this..
My first recording experience was with my 4001 Rick. The engineer hated it and said it was too hard to get a good sound out of them. (I didn't get into the Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, etc.. argument with him) I knew I needed a good recording bass and that's where the Alembic comes in. I have used this on countless sessions since and it always sounds amazing and needs very little if any EQ'ing. A good tube preamp into the board and the bass controls set flat and wahlah! Sheer Excelence!!  I do have an old Jazz and an old Precision that have been used when requested for specific projects because they do have their sound which is cool, but the Alembic sounds good on everything. Our producer Sylvia Massy loves the Alembic and is amazed by the tone and how well it records. Oh yea, and if I know I have to play on someone else's amp at a gig I always take the Distillate. It makes any amp sound better!

[jacko]

Just listened to Flip's MP3s. What an excellent Bass sound and so obvious that it's not a fender ;-)  The whole band sound very tight too. Well worth a listen if you haven't mailed Flip already.
 
Graeme

[jack]

Ha!  Rockin' my office at 8 am on a Tuesday.  Awesome.  Dig this from Flip: Spoiler tuned ADGC (one step below the low strings of a 5-er).  Do you use a 5-str set (ie a 130 or whatever B) and tune it down?  How does that play, not too floppy?
 
I'm a Metallica fan from a young age, dug the material, and good playing, you guys nail it.  Good work on the vocal harmonies on SBT as well.
 
If you ever want a couple laughs, check out these guys:
 
beatallica.org (to hear the tunes search Beatallica at Youtube)
 
Basically a mash-up of The Beatles and Metallica, a laugh riot.  The Thing That Should Not Let It Be and Blackened in the USSR- too funny.  And the singer is a dead ringer for Hetfield, in an overstated, parody sort of way.
 
Ok, sorry to derail the thread (man I have a habit of that.  Stream of consciousness over here).