Author Topic: The values of a vintage make... (Read 1073 times)

hendixclarke · « **on:** May 19, 2009, 07:28:17 AM »

I often think about the values of my older Alembic in comparison to the new ones built.

Does it get to a point where sound is better with age or newer axes need to get older broken in or is it just the opposite (newer the better)?

What is the optimum mid-point of sound from a guitar/bass age perspective?

What is the expiration on pickups, knobs, and general electronics, and when is it a good time to replace the electronics, or is this even recommend for maintaining the original value even if nothing is wrong technically, and thus stay with the older electronics?

Would the value be lowered if parts are upgraded to newer Alembic components from a vintage perspective?

terryc · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:49:51 AM »

Even though Alembic make the best basses and guitars I think they still(even after 40 years)have not got that vintage mystique of old pre CBS Fenders or 1950's Gibsons.
I do find it odd that someone is willing to pay extremely large amounts of money for something which is basically two bits of wood screwed together with a single pick up, volume and tone control even though it might have old cloth insulation.
I don't get impressed by someone telling me 'it's a 59 Precision' okay it does the job but my bass does it better.
Leo made these guitars and basses for the kids who could not afford the expensive Gibsons.

bassman10096 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2009, 09:43:28 AM »

To my taste, older Fenders have the same kind of rugged character as an old Ford - elegantly utilitarian, an engineering and manufacturing milestone, all bound up in nostalgia, etc. I like, 'em, because I like all those things. But I guess I don't see the magical quality many of my friends endow old Fenders with. Also, BTW - the driver in me would still rather have an old (or new) Mercedes Benz (LOL).

hendixclarke · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2009, 10:38:57 AM »

I can care less about Fenders. I was asking about Alembics specifically.

Perhaps if I assign a number to each question would help...

1. Does it get to a point where sound is better with age or newer axes need to get older broken in or is it just the opposite (newer the better)?

2. What is the optimum mid-point of sound from a guitar/bass age perspective?

3. What is the expiration on pickups, knobs, and general electronics, and when is it a good time to replace the electronics, or is this even recommend for maintaining the original value even if nothing is wrong technically, and thus stay with the older electronics?

4. Would the value be lowered if parts are upgraded to newer Alembic components from a vintage perspective?

tmoney61092 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2009, 10:56:10 AM »

Wo, calm down, they were just making a comparison

tmoney61092 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2009, 11:15:48 AM »

Wo, calm down, they were just making a comparison

terryc · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2009, 12:27:52 PM »

Hendixclarke..okay so you don't like Fenders etc.
So lets do an analysis
Q1 - Do old instruments sound better as they get older, well maybe they do as but from what point of view. The newer ones maybe be brighter as the woods may still have some residual moisture in them and as they 'dry out' they become more mellow.This would be a good scientific research topic for any material scientist.
Q2 - Depends on construction etc. Does 40 year old instrument classify as a vintage sound
Q3 - Keep it original, this applies to any item of value whether it be a car, motorcycle, furniture or musical instrument. Repair is better than replacement.
So there you have it..one opinion on old Alembic v new Alembic

hendixclarke · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2009, 12:44:30 PM »

Terry,

I agree. Age gets better over time.

Man, you put a smile on my face...

hendixclarke · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2009, 01:43:52 PM »

tmoney61092, why don't you weigh in on answering my questions. I really like open ended discussions because there's so many perspectives, I am sure.

bassman10096 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 19, 2009, 02:46:59 PM »

1. I'm skeptical about the extent to which aging wood actually changes the sound (of a solid body instrument, particularly) to an audible degree. The means to measure this are beyond my scope, but I've heard a fair number of knowledgeable folks share the same belief.
2. Not postitive what you are looking for here.
3. Provided the parts still function as intended, I agree with Terry. However, the need to upgrade older series electronics if they are getting noisy (as I understand it, often due to how RFI-active the bass's specific locale) could impact performance unevenly.
4. As a general rule, I agree that original is better. However, the upgrade issue could cut either way.

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #10 on:** May 19, 2009, 02:51:36 PM »

It is my understanding that for whatever reason acoustic instruments improve with age. Violin makers seem to especially be sensitive to this. However, guitars don't have the life that violins do, and there are few early guitars that are still playable. I am sure with an acoustic instrument that there is a break in period where the top learns to flex and vibrate properly. I'm not so sure with electrics.

sonicus · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »

I believe that one of the factors regarding the sonic virtues of century old violins such as the Stradivarius is the shellac finish that was used. Like wise a silver finish trumpet versus a lacquer finish trumpet will show timbral differences. The outer resonant surface of any purely acoustic instrument will play a role in defining the timbal character of how it sounds. I played a 1976 Alembic Scorpion and a 20th Anniversary last Sunday but personally I preferred the sound and feel from the relatively newer 20th anniversary's persona : perhaps it just depends on all of the variables involved, and every one might have a different story to tell .

Wolf

(Message edited by sonicus on May 20, 2009)

mike1762 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2009, 04:01:49 PM »

I remember reading somewhere that the wood used in those Golden Age Stradivarius violins were grown during a particularly cool stretch of Spring/Summers. As such, the growth of the trees was stunted and the wood was more dense that usual. I don't know if it's true, but I thought I would take the opportunity to perpetuate the story.

crobbins · « **Reply #13 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:16:26 PM »

I think any new guitar has to be played to get some soul, and good vibes into it...Imho...

(Message edited by CRobbins on May 19, 2009)

2400wattman · « **Reply #14 on:** May 19, 2009, 09:58:51 PM »

While the woods will age and of course that helps with overall tone, the beating heart of our beloved Alembics is the electronics. So with that in mind I've been apprehensive about buying older models because they will eventually need an upgrade of some sort. My '89 Series 2 will be getting one soon and the cost is going to make my butt hurt!