Alembics and strings

[bsee]

I've been enjoying chromes on the short scale for years. I would like to try something in the coated string category, but I don't see any made in shorter scale lengths. Sunbeams might be worth a try - does anyone know if the short scale versions fit an SC bass? I liked the Fat Beams on my old Persuader 5.

[hydrargyrum]

Speaking of coated strings, has anyone tried these http://www.cleartonestrings.com/?

[bigredbass]

In thirty years, I've never found a string I couldn't live without.  I've never used tape wounds, but that's about it.  They all go dead too fast, it's just that simple.  After a week, the all sound alike to me.
 
Tension-wise, I've never had a problem, never thought about it until I began playing a five-string in the 80's till now.  There is no good answer for making the B feel like the other four in conventional scale lengths.  I was never willing to go to 35- or 36-inch scale  instruments for one string.  I've gotten quite used to the way it feels, and really never think about it.
 
At one time in the four-string days, I preferred a bigger D and G, opting for a 50-70-85-105 set from individual Boomers.  I worked in a store and could experiment with different guages as we stocked individual Bass Boomers in that big wooden box that GHS used then for their assortments.  Looking back, I'm really not sure I really heard or felt any difference:  I'm not compelled to do that today.
 
I've really decided I' rather change cheaper strings faster (D'Aquistos are GREAT cheap strings) than shell out more money for a DR Marcus Miller  or Thomastik set and ride them
longer.
 
J o e y

[edwin]

Dave, I notice the tension difference with both hands. After playing for a while on the new bass, I think it might be a psychological effect from the fact that the Alembic is a neck through with the typical Alembic construction while the Starfire is a set neck with all mahogany construction. The Starfire absorbs a lot of the string's sound while the Alembic reflects it back into the string, giving a livelier tone that makes me think there is more tension. I can't really think of any better reason for it. I wonder if there is a way to measure it objectively. All I know is that they both sound very nice indeed!
 
Edwin

[David Houck]

Interesting observation Edwin.  Since the neck-through keeps more of the strings' energy in the strings, as opposed to a set-neck or bolt-on, there should be a difference in the physical vibration of the strings; and if so, then perhaps that difference can be felt by the fingers.

[sonicus]

Edwin & Dave ; Having had a Starfire  for many decades as well as solid body bass's both neck throughs and bolt  on neck Bass's as well as a Double Bass I am very sensitive to string tension as well.
I have observed a Pyscho-Acoustic phenomenon with flat wound strings on my Starfire  and my Double Bass. On my Starfire I like the Snap that I get with Pyramid Gold flat wounds and on my Double Bass I liked Thomastik Spirocore. ( i say liked because I sold it  ) I think there is a correlation with flat-wound strings and the mechanical response that one experiences with a hollow body Bass. What are your thoughts on this . does it make sense to you ?  Edwin , what kind of strings do you like on your Starfire ?
 
(Message edited by sonicus on October 20, 2010)

[David Houck]

Wolf; you may have read this thread before, but just in case I thought I would link to it.  The thread doesn't address your question about hollow bodies, but it does talk about how body woods absorb energy.  I don't know the answer but my guess would be that if you had two set-neck instruments that were the same except that one was a hollow body and one was a solid body, the solid body would absorb more of the strings' energy.

[sonicus]

Yes  Dave I agree, and I would speculate as well that because of the difference in mass between the hollow body and any solid body would account for a difference in the transient attack that is encountered that would account for the perceived response time correlating in variations of string tension even of the same gauge and string length.   Thanks for the link Dave . I will read it.

[nnek]

Is the Starfire really a set neck? Mine has the same stringers behind the pickups as are in the neck. When I was young and stupid I routed out fer a 2nd &3rd pickup as well as a very early badass... I saw those stringers neck to strap pin.
 
Nnek

[adriaan]

Peter - to return to your last post,
 
I'm not saying that you'll find different tension outside the nut-saddle length, I'm saying that to achieve a given pitch on a given string at a given scale, there will only be one tension that will work. It will be same over the whole string, but changing the length outside the speaking part will not vary it.
 
Well, try and imagine you can slide the tailpiece of your Alembic back and forth. If you slide it back, you're stretching the string, so this will increase the tension, and therefore increase the pitch. To get the same pitch with the longer distance between bridge and tailpiece, you would actually have to tune down (decrease the tension).
 
Think of a tremolo bridge, you're making pretty minimal changes in the speaking length, with already noticeable effects on pitch, as well as on tension and stiffness - especially if you go dive-bombing EVH style.
 
So I'm not surprised that there is a difference in both tension and stiffness, between a one-piece bridge and a two-piece set. Or for through-body stringing, for that matter.

[David Houck]

Adriaan; but when you tune back down to pitch won't you be back at the same tension you started with?  I tend to agree with Peter, changing the distance from the bridge saddle to the tailpiece doesn't change the tension when the string is tuned to pitch.

[cozmik_cowboy]

A Strat-type tremelo tailpiece changes 2 of the 3 determinants of pitch; tension & (minimally) scale.  A Bigsby-type changes only the tension. All these changes are within the speaking length, and are directly intended to change pitch by changing tension (a properly set-up Strat-type would ideally pivot at the saddle-to-string contact, thus leaving scale alone, but it's not a perfect design).  At no time does the distance from saddle to anchor point change.  
Your tailpiece-sliding argument actually makes my point nicely. If you move the tailpiece with the string attached (without changing scale or string mass), thus stretching the string, you're changing the tension of the whole string, including the speaking length.  You then would have to adjust the tuner to the original tension within the speaking length to get the original pitch.  
 
Peter

[adriaan]

Hm, good point, Dave - let me be the first to admit that I do not have all the answers. My thoughts start to run wild - that we're not factoring in the mass - longer piece of string, more mass - and what about stiffness - the string may well feel loose, even at the same tension?

[adriaan]

Peter - in your last sentence, the bit about the tension within the speaking length makes no sense, if e accept that the tension is the same over the entire length of the string.
 
Other than that, you've convinced me.

[cozmik_cowboy]

Yes, the tension is the same across the whole string - but only the speaking length matters.  And you're right, it would probably have been clearer without that.  I'd strike it out, but I'm too late to edit that one.
 
Peter