Author Topic: Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar  (Read 1140 times)

benson_murrensun

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2010, 12:56:11 PM »
I agree with this: I think all options are open and valid when we are seeking our tone or musical voice regardless of the instrument manufacturer.
 
And in the case of Jerry Garcia: in my listening experience, Jerry's tone is unique, clear and beautiful. And he did it without Alembic pickups!
And that's the bottom line: whatever works!
 
Feeling guilty about modifying your instrument in order to get a certain sound is a very strange concept to me. Anyway, one can always save the old parts just in case...
I can understand being cautious, and understanding that a well-designed instrument is a combination of parts that were meant to go together. But that shouldn't stop experimentation for the purpose of better sound.

crobbins

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2010, 01:31:15 PM »
I think some people are frustrated with the purity of the tone on an Alembic guitar. They may not have the patience to work with the electronics that make an Alembic guitar sound the way it does. So they put in a couple of humbuckers with a sound they are familiar with, and they are happy. Which is okay...

mica

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2010, 01:47:28 PM »
So this is a topic about modifying Alembic instruments. It's something I have thought about for a long time.  
 
As long as it's done thoughtfully, I can't argue with someone further pursuing their custom dream, after all, the instrument is now theirs to do with as they please.  
 
By thoughtfully, I mean not clipping pickup connectors off the pickups you're removing. Routing carefully or covering previous routings nicely. I actually think the guitar that started this thread didn't do a bad job of it from what I can see in the pictures.  
 
I've been thinking about electronics and pickups on new custom builds too. We made a Tribute for a customer a few years ago with non-Alembic pickups. I didn't want to do it at first, but then I had to consider that it wasn't my guitar anymore, and I shouldn't make the customer buy our pickups and electronics just to get them ripped out later, the replacements possibly not being installed carefully. It's not that I can offer any advice on what such a guitar will sound like, but yeah, just like Maple fingerboards, if you know what you want that's awesome and we will build it.  
 
Intellectually I realize that it's the right thing to do. But emotionally, I still have the response I've heard from many others of Gasp! What happened to that poor guitar?!

hydrargyrum

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2010, 06:49:49 PM »
Les Paul is the first (and honestly only) great guitarist that comes to my mind who primarily used low impedance pickups.  I'd be interested to hear of some more though.  
 
I've long thought that I would love to have a custom guitar with two Alembic pickups and a Alembic Volume, Pan, Filter setup.  But I'd also like to have a P-90 in the middle position on a completely separate circuit with it's own output jack.  These two setups sound different from one another, but it would be absurd to say one is better than the other.  They are two different colors on a palette.  I eventually sold my Alembic guitars because I didn't like the way they interacted with many of my effects (which were by and large optimized for passive guitars), not because the electronics were too complex.  If Alembic is willing to do something like this (which I never thought they would), then I might start saving my pennies for an Alembic, rather than just buying the electronics and asking the other custom builder I've been contemplating to drop them into one of his instruments.  Of course, I've got lots of pennies to save.

terryc

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2010, 01:17:04 PM »
Having just read the rest of this post, agian it seems that an innocent observation escalated into the absurd.
Okay, I would never pull the electronic heart of my MK out and replace it with anything else(other than Alembic innards) but I have placed Alembic electronics in my P bass..no one cried about that.
An as far as censorship, I once made a comment about a certain line in a well known comedy movie and was repremanded about it.
Okay it may have been out of context but it was never removed from the film(I looked at the digital remake of it)
To me that made no sense but I respected the comment and apologised.
Sometimes we need to be chastised for what we say, and adults are children in certain circumstances..just a bit bigger and older. I mean there are people on here who have more guitars and basses than I have clothes, children have collections of the same toy(power rangers, teenage mutant ninja turtles, tranformers etc) but we don't get on there back.
Anyway it is Saturday and I am going to have a beer in my local and put the world to rights and most probably I will upset a few of the clientele who will forget about it tomorrow and we all do it again!!!

bigredbass

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2010, 02:54:23 PM »
I'm with Mica:  Intellectually I can understand it.  However it would be like raising the hood on an Aston Martin and seeing a small block Chevy with Holley carbs and an Edelbrock manifold staring back at me !
 
You can never underestimate what works for different guys.  I've seen guys with big money rigs, collector guitars and handmade amps that couldn't even get a decent clean sound, next to a guy with a pawnshop Aria through a Peavey Pacer that looks like it fell down a flight of stairs that was just singing . . . you just never know.  
 
As far as complaining about the moderators, I will go with it as I'd settle for some guidance vs. the anarchy I find in other musical chats.  I still feel I'm visiting the Wickershams, and every time I think of something just a bit too smart, I can just see Susan cutting her eyes at me with that look . . . . and I'm moderated !  
 
J o e y

edwin

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2010, 06:29:25 PM »
There were a few modifications on my previous Alembic, two of which I did myself (a thumb rest that worked out nicely and replacement of the tuning machines which required the judicious use of a cello reamer) and some at the factory (refinish and adding of an omega cut). I would have gone farther if I thought it would make the bass better and have modified some of my instruments to the point where they got beyond redemption. I ended up routing out the first body of my Modulus for all kinds of preamp experiments and finally just had to replace it as my idea of creating different preamp setups on swappable front and back plates got way too unwieldy. My strat,  which would otherwise be considered vintage and collectable, I refinished (now I regret that, but I got talked into it by a friend), added two preamps and routed a battery box in the back. It's a great guitar and sounds much different than it would had I left it stock. My '67 Starfire has gone through numerous mods. I'd have no compunction about doing the same to my new Series I, but there's really no need. So, I don't take mods as heresy or insult to the original maker, but I do take it as a tribute to Alembic that their work needs modification so rarely. Out of all the instruments that I have, the Series I is the only one that has no modifications.
 
I would probably prefer the above guitar with the original electronics, but on the other hand, I'd love to try it with the early 60s Gibson humbuckers from my ES140 (which itself only has them because of modifications!).

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2010, 08:46:40 PM »
very interesting thread....so the bottom line is it's ok to modify your ax, it is yours to do as you wish......toma hawwk statement about moderators appeared to be in good fun (hence LOL) he is now in hibernation (again) ( i stay in hibernation most of the time but couldnt resist commenting )...moderators are human and make mistakes at times.... commenting or threatening to wrongfully shut a thread down (my opinion)...again i have really enjoyed this thread.....2 for 1....serious tecnical comments and comedy!
who gets the cover charge! LOL wickerham? oh no this is a free site and all is welcome (as long as you play by site and mod rules!) LOL  
to paraphrase Hal.......  
All You Need Is Love (Lennon)  
Later....

jazzyvee

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2010, 10:39:48 AM »
Mica, I like your rational response on the thread but it leads me to a question How you differentiate these instruments in regards to which one should legitimately bear the alembic name.
 
1) An instrument made entirely by alembic but fitted with non Alembic pickups and electronics at the factory.
 
2) an instrument made entirely by alembic but after purchase the current owner replaces the innards with non alembic pickups and electronics.
 
3) Either instrument being described as Alembic in a sale on ebay, craigs list etc.
 
My own view is that I think as long as the person who has the instrument keeps it then can be considered an alembic albeit modified. If I was considering purchasing either, being described as Alembic would feel like  misrepresentation, which begs the question; what constitutes an instrument worthy of the alembic name, the body or the soul ( pickups & electronics)?  or something else.
 
 
Jazzyvee
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dfung60

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2010, 11:16:08 PM »
Jazzyvee -
 
You pose an interesting question.  For what it's worth, I'd answer it like this:
 
#1) Built by Alembic but with non-Alembic electronics is defintely a factory custom Alembic.  The mixture would definitely be reflected on the birth certificate.  In terms of resale valuation, it's higher than if the mods were made by a third party, but I would guess it would be lower than with stock factory electronics because, even with the birth certificate, it will be of questionable lineage, plus the cost retrofitting standard pickups and electronics would be so extraordinarily high.
 
#2) Started life as a standard Alembic, then retrofitted.  It's still an Alembic, but it's a modified one.  If the original electronics are no longer available or retrofittable, it's probably has very little resale value.  If somebody was trying to sell this as an unmodified Alembic, then it will have zero value; as a modified one, it sort of depends on the modification, but will greatly degrade the price.  The problem here is that restoration cost again - if you have taken $2000 of Alembic electronics out and replaced them with $300 of electronics, then you can assume you'll lose $1700+ off the top.
 
#3) Touched on what it should be called in the other two writeups.  I do think that it's an Alembic in any case with qualifiers.
 
#4) You didn't ask about #4, which I think you're just as likely to see on eBay - What do you call a Fender Jazz bass that's had Alembic electronics installed (not Activators, but the real deal).  I would say that that instrument's NOT an Alembic, but is modified with Alembic electronics and probably would sell considerably higher than what it was before, although less high than the cost of the electronics.
 
That's my 2 cents,
 
David Fung

jacko

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2010, 02:42:40 AM »
Has #1 ever happened?
 
graeme

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2010, 06:48:06 AM »
Graeme, see Mica's post 7009 above.
 
Peter
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jacko

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2010, 06:54:23 AM »
oops.

jazzyvee

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Oooo, just look at what they've done to that poor defenseless guitar
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2010, 12:39:31 AM »
The reason I didn't put No:4 was because I didn't think there would be any confusion about that one as It would be an alembic powered Fender Jazz bass.
 
But I agree, worth mentioning to completethe picture.
Jazzyvee
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