Author Topic: Toma Hawk on Ebay (Read 830 times)

pace · « **Reply #30 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:23:20 AM »

OMG!!!!.....

It's a fleet of funk, flying in TomaHawk formation!!!!!

>>>> I also read somewhere something about Alembics early triple omega was ghost built anyway.

jalevinemd · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:48:30 AM »

Here are my thoughts on the subject. One I usually avoid. And, ironically, my longest post ever:

Regarding it being unethical (or whatever) for Hal to sell the design that Alembic built, I don't think it remotely is. He dreamed it. They built it. I can't imagine they would care in the slightest if that shape came rolling off every assembly line in Korea. Now I co-designed the first Little Darling with Alembic. It was based on Kevin's original Balance-K. Those have become standard models. I think if we tried to do the same thing, there'd probably be a different response from Santa Rosa!

I doubt very much Hal approached Alembic for the sole purpose of prototyping the instrument he intended to produce and market. There are plenty of Luthiers who could have done that at a fraction of what he must have paid for that monstrosity (forgive me). I speculate, rather, that he had a vision for a bass for himself. Upon realization of that vision, he decided to go much further and start his own revolution.

As for the asking price on ebay. That's just delusional. When you have one of these instruments made, they should come with a towel. Because if you ever decide to sell, you're gonna wind up taking a friggin' bath! And the more heavily customized it is, the bigger that bath will be. Especially if you stray completely from what a traditional Alembic looks like. Let's face it. We're already a very limited market. Make these things too personalized and you'd better plan on keeping it forever.

If the Toma Hawk line ever caught on as the next greatest thing, then the prototype built by Alembic surely would be valuable to someone passionate about Toma Hawk basses. Until then, though, it's simply a used Series II bass without a whole lot of mass appeal.

pierreyves · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »

Hal spoke of himself one day (FTC thread), about his paranoia: this word I did not invent, I quoted Hal... but what I can say is that, with the ideas of megalomania, he joined the bipolar disorder. I know, tailpiece and headstock disorder, new pathology ?
is to give too much importance to this customer...

lbpesq · « **Reply #33 on:** December 18, 2011, 11:39:45 AM »

I'd be able to take this whole thing more seriously if Hal had actually built a completed a bass BEFORE he started marketing. Leo Fender didn't start going to music stores selling Broadcasters before he had even completed the first one. There is a LOT more to building instruments than cutting up some wood and gluing it together. If it were that simple, I suspect most of us would never have paid what we did for a new Alembic. I am the current caretaker of #10, a '76 Series I, a '77 Series I 12 string, the #8 Tribute, and my '07 custom Further. In comparing these instruments, I can assure you that Alembic learned a thing or two along the way. Building a great instrument takes a lot more than a different body shape, a bunch of hyperbolic prose, and a website.

Bill, tgo

jhamby · « **Reply #34 on:** December 18, 2011, 01:23:56 PM »

The photo shows 19 basses in progress, made from some beautiful woods. Looks like an act of love to me.

An eBay listing is not necessarily a serious attempt to sell something. This one might be intended just to announce that these basses are coming.

slawie · « **Reply #35 on:** December 18, 2011, 02:09:32 PM »

I cannot hate Hal or put down the things he tries to acheive, and also I have rarely come across an individual who takes things on so passionately.

Good Luck to him and his endeavours

If he does not harm the Wickershams, the Alembic brand or anyone else I say Go For It!

slawie

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #36 on:** December 18, 2011, 02:36:44 PM »

In considering these posts I think any new member must keep in mind that Hal has offended many members of this forum, from a variety of nationalities and dispositions. In my time I've visited many guitar and bass related forums on the web. I've found this one to contain some of the most polite, intelligent, and thoughtful people I've ever encountered on the internet. However, Hal has personally insulted me on more than one occasion, and accused me of having a viewpoint that I find to be morally deplorable, and untenable. I'll say no more than to argue that those who know me, know better.

Moreover, I know that one of our most esteemed moderators (whom I dare not name), has also suffered accusations of ill behavior. These accusations are ill founded, and baseless.

I have no doubt that Hal is a passionate person, and that he is committed to his goals. I admire him for these qualities. I also hope that he learns how to deal with other human beings who do not share his perspective amicably, as he has so far failed in this context to do so, and as always,I continue to wish him good luck. I would be pleased to know him better, as he seems to be a very unique person. I hope one day we might meet in person, so that we might understand each other better.

bsee · « **Reply #37 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:09:38 PM »

One other thought is that it will take a year or two after the first instrument is completed before anyone knows if they are any good. If there are any flaws in the wood or workmanship, it may take a while for those to show. If there are none, it will take a while for that to be proven. I hear about the occasional custom bass with a twisted neck or some otehr issue because the wood was a bit too green and/or the luthier didn't have those years of experience. I don't know his background with regard to woodworking or if he has a seasoned pro working with him, but it is suprising based on the above taht he would be making so many instruments in parallel this early. If there's a fundamental flaw, that's a lot of dollars in time and wood that may not work out.

As far as Hal's design, the only thing that might make it questionable at all from a copyright perspective would be the way I recall it being described. I may be mistaken here, but I thought his description was that he started with a Small Standard and then cut away a little bit more for better forearm/elbow positioning. If that was the case, then the Toma-Hawk could be argued to be a derivitive work rather than an original design. I wonder what the hardware and electronics will look like. It would be a stretch to expect him to fabricate his own hardware or electronics a la Alembic.

There is a limit to the number of shapes one can make within the space of a guitar body or headstock. It's hard to argue that anything is a copy unless it's pretty accurate. I don't think Alembic is going to start marketing Toma-Hawk bodied basses, so it probably doesn't matter to them. In any case, I think Alembic has better things to do with their time and money than play legal games.

Personally, I don't like the shape, but I haven't played one. While I don't care if he fails or succeeds, the hoopla has me interested to follow along to see what a completed instrument looks like and how they are received.

sjhoffma · « **Reply #38 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:18:46 PM »

I take back most of what I said after seeing that floor full of basses... but I still say it looks like a room full of Stanley clark small bodies...

sjhoffma · « **Reply #39 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:40:01 PM »

By the way, it is VERY important to keep in mind when we all discuss and share our opinions... that there is no hate!!!

Not all comments and opinions can be of a possitive nature, but it doesn't have to imply any annimocity when someone happens to say something negative. Hal I'm sorry if you think I was hating on you, I was just telling my opinion based on what information I had to go on.

Bill you hit the proverbial nail representing my opinion on the head here... There is a LOT more to building instruments than cutting up some wood and gluing it together

This is my whole point here as well.

Hal... I'm not trying to hate or say your efforts aren't great or worthy of respect and admiration... they most certainly are! No one else here at the Alembic Club has a room full a projects such as impressive as that... with such nice quality of woods... but I'm just saying that until one is completely finished, that thats all they are... nice pieces of wood glued together.

I wish you luck, and hope they set up and all play well.

However, I don't think youll ever sell your Alembic built Toma Hawk for 18,000, and unless you have a completely different idea when it comes to hardware, electronics, etc... your basses will be taken as pretty much just Halembics

No hate. Just my opinion, as incorrect as it might be. To each his own.

****But as a note*** Sending me 5 emails of pictures of you with famous bass players and saying stuff like Marcus Miller don't hate me... doesn't really help your cause as a credible luthier... especially since... I dont hate you or anyone else!

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #40 on:** December 18, 2011, 05:38:11 PM »

Remember all the Photoshopped pics of Hal's bass? Notice how the grain of the buckeye piece on the bottom left runs through the maple & ebony?

Peter

lbpesq · « **Reply #41 on:** December 18, 2011, 06:44:59 PM »

Peter, I'd forgotten - stuff like the Mona Lisa, Darth Vader, Jiminy Cricket, Napoleon, and Speed Racer all playing a Tomahawk! rotflmao

Bill, tgo

artswork99 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 18, 2011, 07:13:08 PM »

This thread has been derailed in regard to the bass on eBay and as James (malthumb) suggested above, let's let it rest. Several moderators have discussed this and we agree that it would be a good resting place.

sjhoffma · « **Reply #43 on:** December 18, 2011, 08:19:37 PM »

agreed

ajdover · « **Reply #44 on:** December 18, 2011, 08:34:54 PM »

In the interest of letting it rest ...

One thing left out in this conversation is this - job creation.

If Hal is indeed producing these basses, I'm guessing he's employing people to help him, or at least using parts from other manufacturers (pickups, hardware, etc.). In this sense, Hal may be a job creator (someone has to make the parts, pickups, hardware, etc.). If that is the case, I think it's a good thing regardless of what we may each individually think about Hal's funk bass. He may be creating jobs due to his venture into the world of bass guitar manufacturing. Not to be political here, but I think anyone who creates jobs is doing a good thing given our nation's current economic situation. I hope that's the case with Hal.

Would I buy one? No. I don't care for the body shape (and I'm not much of a slapper/popper in any case), but I can see where it would be a nice instrument for those who do a lot of slapping/popping.

As for selling his Alembics - good luck on that as well. And I mean that in a positive way.

Alan

(Message edited by ajdover on December 18, 2011)