Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: hammer on September 19, 2021, 10:40:36 AM
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Wondering how live music venues in other parts of the country are responding to the need to keep people safe while still being able to fill seats during the pandemic. Here in MN it's really a crap shoot with some promoters and venues requiring proof of vaccination and/or masks and others requiring nothing at all. Unfortunately, venues are often not posting requirements until a day or two before a show. Last night, I passed up on attending a concert for which I paid $140 for 2 tickets because neither masks now vax proof were required. The same groups that I had wanted to see and hear live had a show the previous night a little bit further from where I live but well within driving distance that required both protections. I certainly would have attended that show if only I had known in advance how the venue was going to handle protecting attendees.
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Personally, I’m not ready to attend any indoor events. Nor am I about to attend any large outdoor gatherings just yet. I’m just beginning to get comfortable with indoor rehearsal and jams, so long as everyone is vaxxed.
Bill, tgo (who wonders why no one is complaining about the government taking away our freedom to drive through red lights or eat in restaurants naked?)
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My wife and I both feel the same way as Bill does, not quite ready to be in a large gathering of people even outdoors. We went to one small indoor event a month or so ago as the delta surge started and were pretty much the only people in the room wearing masks. Supposedly everyone was vaccinated but no proof was required and at least one attendee did not make it because they had gotten a breakthrough infection. Personally I think all venues should require proof of vaccination and make that clear at the time you purchase your ticket.
As much as we would love to return to normal, whatever that is, nothing is 100% close to normal yet, everything we do is overlaid with a reminder of the pandemic. I was without a car for the last 6 weeks since one of the "many fine people" out there swiped the catalytic converter off my Honda CRV. Naturally parts were back ordered and due to the current Covid-induced rental car shortageI I could not find a rental car, especially for the amount the insurance was willing to pay per day. When we finally picked up my repaired car from the Honda dealership it looked like a ghost town there. Very few cars on the lot and no shoppers or even people having cars serviced. The service advisor I deal with said they usually have 3-400 new cars for sale on the lot, currently they have 30 and were told to expect a 40% reduction in the next shipment. One of the chip factories burned down, there are all sorts of Covid related shipping delays etc. So what should have seemed like a normal trip to the dealership instead felt surreal. The psychological effects of this are going to be with us for a long time.
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I have done 4 gigs this year, one large outdoor festival, and two pub gigs outdoors and under cover and one on Friday which was indoors at a medium sized venue which had 150 people seated in distanced groups. All of those venues I wore a mask until I got on stage, the indoor one had a big sign on the door that there would be no entry unless you had a mask on. I got to reception, none of the staff were wearing masks, none of the bar staff or security staff bar one. Hardly off the stage crew, other performers backstage in shared dressing rooms had masks on either. There were some in the audience and camera crews wearing them but. I thought why have big notice and not enforce it.
Like Bill, tgo I am not ready for shoulder to shoulder gigs inside or out at the moment. Maybe once the incidence of infections have reduced considerably I will do that. I am going to be driving myself to gigs and not travelling in the van to reduce my exposure for a while.
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Like many of you I am confused by the aversion to wearing a mask.
We went to the State Fair awhile back (majority of the grounds/events are open air).
A friend asked why I was wearing a mask in the open air.
I told him: “People look at my funny and then they stay away from me!”
Those are most likely people I don’t want near me anyways…
I have not gone to any shows and currently am playing bass on project work in my basement alone.
There is an upcoming show I do not want to miss at a well known indoor venue that has very ‘middle of the road guidelines’.
The act has well defined guidelines for proving vaccination and /or negative test results and urges masks to be worn. These would supersede the venues guidelines.
I am truly on the fence about attending.
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I'm not really sure what's going on around Chicago. I thought we had a new mask mandate in place, but Friday night, my wife and I went to the grand re-opening of a small music club/bar & grill in the 'burbs and there were no signs or masks in sight. We left because of the general overcrowding, but the lack of masks did not help with the comfort level.
I did a run of 15 gigs in 6 states over the summer. Mostly outdoors except for two. No masks anywhere. I wasn't TOO worried about it since I'm fully vaxxed, but with the more recent surge, I'm glad I'm off for a while.
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There were a few masks at Dead and Company at Wrigley Friday and Saturday. Few! No distancing to speak of at all.
The band was great. Mickey and Bill are really bringing Igual into the fold since he got horned.
I wear my mask. Except when I'm smoking a Joint...
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I wear my mask. Except when I'm smoking a Joint...
Damn covid, can’t even pass a joint anymore!
Bill, tgo (“please covid that joint, my friend, don’t pass it over to me”)
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I wear my mask. Except when I'm smoking a Joint...
Damn covid, can’t even pass a joint anymore!
Bill, tgo (“please covid that joint, my friend, don’t pass it over to me”)
I seem to recall one night last year on my balcony.....
(And I am highly honored at the level of trust that showed).
Peter
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I plead the fifth!
More seriously, I not only appreciated how seriously you guys appeared to be taking the pandemic, but that you even allowed me to enter your humble abode. On the way back with Nicky, (my son), last year, a friend of 45+ years wouldn't even let us sleep in a tent in his backyard in Colorado (to be fair, it was his wife who banned us).
Bill, tgo
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There is a comparison I can relate now.
D&C at Wrigley required proof of vax or a neg test 72 hours before the show to enter. No neg tests allowed in the pit non vaxed. They did give a cool wristband that was good for both days as proof of..proof!
Primus at the Chicago theater had no vax or test verification, all should wear masks. I say should because many many people were not. I had someone in a middle a row get yelled at by security for now having their mask on, even though many around them did not have theirs on.
D&C were great. Primus did the entire Farewell to Kings album using Alex and Geddys instruments!
Didn't care I had to wear a mask. I'm vaxed. It is surprising to have so many people not care of their fellow humans. I'm just glad to see these shows. Santana at Tinley next summer...got my mask ready!
And I may pass a joint to my friend but I'm still at the stranger danger phase.
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There is a comparison I can relate now.
D&C at Wrigley required proof of vax or a neg test 72 hours before the show to enter. No neg tests allowed in the pit non vaxed. They did give a cool wristband that was good for both days as proof of..proof!
Primus at the Chicago theater had no vax or test verification, all should wear masks. I say should because many many people were not. I had someone in a middle a row get yelled at by security for now having their mask on, even though many around them did not have theirs on.
D&C were great. Primus did the entire Farewell to Kings album using Alex and Geddys instruments!
Didn't care I had to wear a mask. I'm vaxed. It is surprising to have so many people not care of their fellow humans. I'm just glad to see these shows. Santana at Tinley next summer...got my mask ready!
And I may pass a joint to my friend but I'm still at the stranger danger phase.
D&C?
Peter
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D&C?
Peter
Dead & Company, as in a couple of old hands, John Mayer and Oteil Burbridge.
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D&C?
Peter
Dead & Company, as in a couple of old hands, John Mayer and Oteil Burbridge.
Ah, yes - of course. Silly me.
Thanks, Adriaan.
Peter
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I had to pass up free tickets to a show I would like to have seen just last weekend. The venue required a vax card and masks. So I had to pass.
So I guess I'll be the lone dissenter here, and I hope that doesn't come with condemnation. I am un-vaccinated and will remain so until the medical field at large figures out how the ham-sandwich this virus works. I do believe they will, in time, but right now it is changing faster than they can adjust to the mutations. I understand the need to do something, and do it fast because so many were sick. I am the last person who needs to be told. My parents had it severely. Hell, I had it. Most of the people I work with did too, and we were expected to be at work if the Black Plague was going around. Just buried one of my friends ashes. Guess what - he was vaxxed. It found a way in and shut down his kidneys. In two weeks he was gone.
Another of my very close friends had her daughter vaxxed just so she could go back to school. She's had severe abdominal bleeding and can't keep food down. Now a formerly healthy, athletic 20-year girl has lost 37 pounds since July. Her aunt and mother-in-law were both sickened by the same vaccine, one badly enough to be hospitalized and cautioned against the follow-up dose. Annecdotal? Maybe. But I know these people. Nobody wants to talk about it because it is seen as anti-vaccine speech. She just about lost three family members to pressure for this stuff, one of them her oldest child.
So no, I won't be lining up to get a shot that maybe doesn't even work anymore. I don't have that much to live for, or to lose. Like I said, I had the original virus last year, I am not that worried about getting one of new strains running around. There's absolutely no medical evidence that says I'd be any worse off than last time, and there's a lot of question about how much natural immunity plays into how susceptible I really am. I'm not against getting vaccinated, and when they get it right, I'm there. You can test me to hell and gone meantime. I'd be willin' to slip a $20 for a positive test for the two weeks off. For the record, the Girl in the Pink Floppy Hat is positively furious with me over this decision. She's double-vaxxed, and saran-wrapped, and still scared to death. It's not the biggest fight we've ever had, but it's a close second. There are times when it's good to have about a 3500 mile head start on her.
Seriously, worst of all, in the beginning of this pandemic, I hoped if nothing else we'd learn some lessons... how to take care of each other, how to survive on less, how to produce things again, that somehow we'd put aside differences and try to get along. "We're all in this together" was the buzz phrase. No we ain't. We haven't learned a damn thing. We still don't make anything here, so when the shelves go empty, people go indiscriminately crazy and hoard. We can't even agree on how to get out of a crisis. We're blaming each other for it now. I'm just an observer, not a participant. I have no idea who I caught the virus from, and I don't care. I don't know who I caught the last cold I had from either. It doesn't matter. I don't remember ever sharing a joint at a concert, but now probably ain't the best time. I just... I won't add to the paranoia. I treat people the same way I always have. I think everybody has to deal with this in their own way. They have to find what their own comfort zone is and stay in it. If it isn't time for you to go back to a public place with a crowd, then yeah, don't do that. If you're someone like me who would just as soon not be surrounded by people who are freaked out by you not masked up and carrying a vax card, then stay away from those situations. I don't want anyone else to feel awkward around me, and the same thing, likewise. It's a strange time, but I have acclimated to it.
I'm not going to let it change me. I'm not going to be frightened, propagandized, or shamed into defeat. I don't think you can stop a virus from acting like a virus by making people stop acting like people. I'm going to take care of the people close to me, and keep doing what I'm supposed to. Eventually the really smart people will figure out how to kill this thing, and we can get back to concerts without all the etc.
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Greg, sorry to hear how this has affected you and those close to you. Not sure if numbers matter to you, but this is how it is in the Netherlands.
85% of the adult population (15M) are fully vaccinated, 15% have chosen not to.
Of the people who need hospitalization for covid (today 473 in regular hospital care, and 174 in ICU) 90% are not vaccinated.
If vaccination had no effect, you would expect 85% of people hospitalized with covid to be vaccinated. But it's quite the opposite.
The problem with numbers is that it's not about the indivdual persons, but about the population at large.
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97% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated people. Almost 700,000 covid deaths in USA. Haven’t heard of a single death from vaccination. Hey, a lot of people die in cars. Maybe I should stay out of cars until they figure it out? If everyone had gotten vaccinated in the spring, we’d all be attending indoor concerts right now. Freedom? The government takes away your freedom to drive through red lights. Why should the gov’t force my kid to wear a mask to school? The gov’t already forces your kid to wear pants to school. Why aren’t people complaining about that? Personally, I don’t mind people who don’t want to get vaccinated. Just be responsible about it - stay home, quarantine, and don’t interact with others anywhere so you can’t spread the virus. If you want to interact with others, respect the social contract - I’ll take reasonable steps to avoid infecting you, and you take reasonable steps to avoid infecting me.
Biil, tgo
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My .02.
What I think is truly being missed here is that this Virus (and whatever else is to come) is in my mind, a warning shot across our bow. The human race is killing this planet, she (Mother Nature) has had just about enough. Just as white blood cells protect the body by removing the unwanted, Mother Nature is getting set to off us. We have heard “the meek shall inherit the earth” I always took that to mean that third world populations would take over after the Industrial Military Complex wipes out the Super Power countries… but no, the “meek” are microscopic organisms that will put the planet back into its flourishing state that it was in prior to “mankind” f’ng it up.
This will mutate and continue to change, and man will foolishly think they have things under control. Mother Nature is NOT one to spar with. We need to be harmonious with the planet. We will fail as there is no profit to be made in loving Mother Nature. My wife and I hug a lot of trees, try as we might we can NOT avoid single use plastic. We have cupboards over flowing with single use plastic items that are on stand by for being repurposed for a second, third, etc. use. Some days I just wanna cry.
Paul (who is by no means religious and has read far too many sci-fi books growing up)
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Bill
I think your last several points are well taken starting with "I don't personally mind...Just be responsible about it." I work with people with intellectual and developmental disabilities who have been hit especially hard by COVID and was one of the one's first in line when vaccines became available. I've been doubly vaccinated and will get a booster first thing when it's available to me. Not because I'm necessarily worried about myself but because Im worried about a lot of others including family members in their 90s whose immune systems aren't what they used to be and a grandson who won't be eligible even if/when they extend vaccines down to 5-year olds.
We are in this together whether we like it or not and need to find ways to support each other through this mess. As long as people who choose to not receive the vaccine at this time always mask up, wear a quality mask as it is intended to be worn, maintain physical distancing, and get themselves tested, I'm fine with their choice.
At this point, we've veered off track from my original posting regarding steps that venues have taken to protect their customers against the pandemic as well as the topic of "All things Alembic and Music Related" Given the varied opinions people have about vaccination, the pandemic, etc. I wouldn't mind at all if the moderators closed this thread down to avoid the discussion getting contentious.
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Yep no contention here. I'm still a friend if you wear you mask or whatever decision you make. My post reads a bit judgemental, and it was not my intent. Apologies if I helped bend the tracks.
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Here in New York City you can’t get into a restaurant, a Broadway show, a movie theater, a bar or just about any other public place without proof of being vaxxed or a negative test. Health workers are being mandated to get jabbed or tested or face losing their job. Same with teachers and other school personnel. However, that mandate has been temporarily blocked in court. The logic of which evades me.
One of the biggest detriments to stopping this thing is how politicized it has become. You have politicians who know nothing about science preaching to their constituents to do everything that will ensure they will get sick. And those constituents hang on every word of misinformation that spews out of their dumb ass mouths.
I, for one, didn’t think twice about getting the jab. I’m going for my third dose next Tuesday. I still wear a mask in all indoor situations. Let people laugh and/or make fun of me. I don’t give a crap if I am the only one masked up. When my doctors tell me about the horrors they see in their hospitals and how it could have been avoided that’s all the convincing I need to follow the advice of the science.
It’s up to the individual what choice they make or who to listen to. I made my choice. But I also believe that a person’s right to do what they want ends when it affects the well being of others.
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"I am un-vaccinated and will remain so until the medical field at large figures out how the ham-sandwich this virus works. I do believe they will, in time, but right now it is changing faster than they can adjust to the mutations."
It is able to mutate because there enough unvaccinated people that it has been allowed to keep spreading long enough to mutate.
Sorry if you were hoping to get away without condemnation, but but in this case you are the problem! The longer people buy into the nonsense that the vaccine is somehow worse than the virus, the more, and more dangerous, mutations will occur.
In deference to the Wickershams, whose living room we are are in, I will not give you the full treatment I usual unload on those spewing that claptrap - but I will list a few names:
Smallpox.
Polio.
Measles.
Mumps.
We now have a couple generations to whom those names mean nothing. Why? Because people weren't stupid enough to eschew the vaccines that eliminated them.
Sorry, Wickershams & mods, if I crossed a line there, but I felt it had to be said. I'll step away from the keyboard now.
Peter (who prefers to get his medical information from doctors & scientists, rather than half-witted conmen and moronic podcast hosts)
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Moderators - I think we have crossed the line and personally I want to remain friends with ALL in our community regardless of their stand on COVID vaccination. Maybe I was a bit naive, but in starting this tread I never intended that it would take us in this direction. Please close this thread as we have strayed a bit too far from the purpose of our club.
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Sorry, Greg - reflex.
I did not mean to question your intelligence - though I can see how that last line could be read that way. We have enjoyed many friendly exchanges, both here and in private e-mails, and I would not want my passionate feelings on this matter to get in the way of that.
While I stand by everything I said in re the need for vaccines, masks, etc., I ashamedly ask your permission to withdraw, and apologize for, my intemperate tone.
Peter (who, in his own defense, will add that most of the people he engages with on this matter are known to him to not be decent, intelligent folks such as yourself)
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Heck, who needs a vaccine ... can’t we just destroy Covid with the Jewish space lasers?
hehehehe
Bill, tgo
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Pauldo, sadly you are surely correct about this, there is more to come and soon, I would guess...on another note, I had a thought the other day that in future I will wear a mask when I'm sick to keep it away from others; I used to think the Asians on the bus in flu season kinda weird in the past, but now I see the wisdom that I and others were the fools...actually, it'll be a bandanna because my combination of large, narrow nose and glasses SUCKS with most masks...Tony.
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Heck, who needs a vaccine ... can’t we just destroy Covid with the Jewish space lasers?
hehehehe
Bill, tgo
Hey - next meeting of The Tribe, think you guys could get together on pointing that thing at Mar......nah - already on thin ice ice here; not gonna go political.
Peter
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Well... it wasn't like I thought my opinion was going to be popular or embraced here, but I did expect a pinch more deference. I think you guys know how I feel about ya', because I post it all the time. I'm not that easily triggered or offended, so don't shut down a discussion on my account. Mine after all, seems to be the only dissent, and even that with the caveat (if you read the post) I will get vaccinated as soon as I see that it is effective. Brian asked about attendance requirements at a concert. My buddy John over at Bluegrass Today had comp'd tickets to see Bela' Fleck last weekend. The venue, as I said required not only a proof of vaccination, but a mask. That was a direct response to what Brian was asking. So I couldn't go. I might could have gotten away with it if they weren't really checking VIPs. Wasn't worth it to me to risk putting other people, especially a friend, in an awkward spot.
The rest of my post was more to do with living out and working through the COVID experience here in Virginia. I didn't go anywhere else with the discussion, political or personal. I only wanted you guys to know how I felt. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything contrary to the running thread.
Y'all carry without me, I have said too much already.
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....and has read far too many sci-fi books growing up)
i myself have read far too much apocalyptic sci-fi and that's what this whole thing has felt like from the start. people wearing masks. quarantines. segregation. us vs. them. fear and loathing. conspiracy theories. W00T! right outta steven king!
even after almost 2 years i haven't gotten used to it even though it's now the "new normal". i used to be a people person but nowadays being in a crowd makes me feel hinky. not sure if i'll ever go to a live venue or play another gig again. kinda makes me glad i'm getting to the end of my span and i'll be looking forward to shuffling off of this mortal coil. hopefully well baked.
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I will get vaccinated as soon as I see that it is effective.
Greg, what I don’t understand about this position is what more do you need? 97% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated people! The places with the lowest vaccination rates, like Texas and Florida have the fullest ICUs, the highest rates of infection, and are the breeding grounds for mutations. The places with the highest vaccination rates, like NY and California, have the lowest infection rates and have hospital beds available. Do you believe this is just a coincidence?
Bill, tgo
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The local vaccination rates are a really important part of the equation. So many hospitals around the country are completely full and turning patients away, there is a point where the oversimplification of the perception of "personal freedom" has negative impacts on the common good. A friend of ours ended up in the ICU in San Francisco yesterday (non-Covid related), he may not have made it if we lived somewhere with no ICU capacity. Right now the vaccines have been very effective in keeping the worst in check, the longer people hold out on getting vaccinated the better chance there will be another variant that the current vaccine is useless against, that is the problem with "waiting to see" if the current vaccine actually works. Vaccines and masks are still the best tools available to us until there is a definitive cure.
I am also wondering when or if I will even play a gig indoors again or go to an indoor show. The venue would have to require proof of vaccination and until the surge ends, masks. Tests within a few days are largely a useless indicator, if they accept tests it is a no go for me. I don't enjoy wearing a mask but can say that I have enjoyed not getting ANY kind of respiratory illness in almost two years. Even if Covid becomes a non-issue I can easily see wearing a mask indoors in public during flu season.
Greg, we like having you around here please stay safe and don't end up a statistic!